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Old 09-20-2001, 02:12 AM
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brucec32 brucec32 is offline
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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day labor

How clever people are who stop by the 'street corner' to pick up a day laborer. Let's taxes get paid....the workers aren't insured if they get hurt, the employer is vulnerable to being sued if they get hurt , nobody gets any training or job advancement, the law is being broken by all parties, wages for legitimate workers in the industry are reduced accordingly, technical innovation and improved productivity are slowed (cheaper to hire 4 mexicans than to invest in better tools and training for 1 legal worker, right?) our social services are being overwhelmed by these workers and their families, our medicaid system is being bankrupted (yes, they get free medical coverage at hospitals, even if they're illegal!) , their situation back home isn't improving any because they're not there fighting to make it better, and you're giving illegal aliens a way to support themselves within our borders without our permission. It's quaint when there are 8 million here and you only have to see them when you need your dirty work done. What will you think when it's 60 million and they're crowding the street corner in your neighborhood? Just because "everyone does it" doesn't make it right.

Question. How many of the terrorists who killed about 6,000 of us last week were legal aliens?

Answer: 0

Some of these terrorists in hiding hold undocumented positions doing menial jobs with contractors while they wait to act. The guy hired by a contractor "off the books" to clean out the airplane you will be flying on next week might just be an Arab Muslim. Have a nice flight. Hope he doesn't leave anything on the plane.

The laws are there for a sound reason, despite people's desire to max out their income or save some money getting some odd jobs done. I wish people of all backgrounds with good intentions and character much prosperity and freedom, but I also wish they'd obey the law.
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Old 09-20-2001, 03:08 AM
Guido Guido is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: North Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 2,085
I think its a myth.....

The whole cheap labor thing. I mean of course you need laborers if you do a lot of landscape construction or maintenance, but they can never compare to a legal, trained, compansated, well paid, loyal worker. People use this "cheap labor" to fill those positions and thats when they hurt themselves. They think they are saving money, but in the long run I disagree.

There was a paragraph I remember from one of Vander Kooi's books "completing the circle" I think it was.

He compared the overhead burden of a few companies that were all about 15 years old. Well one of the 3 stuck out like a sore thumb. He was paying his 6 or 8 employees 11- 15 dollars an hour (they have all been with him for atleast 12 years now) while the other companies were paying the 6-8 dollar an hour range and loosing employees every year because of no benefits, etc.

Well of course the guy paying benny's and good hourly wage had a higher overhead, but he still beat those other companies by a long shot every "test bid" they made because his guys were well trained, career focused, well compansated, and the morale was high. Retention was great so they worked together for years which made them a great "team" when out on the job. They could do the work of double of the cheap laborors. They had more job knowledge and could utilize the tools and equipment much better. They didn't need to be babysat like the others either, which frees up the owner to do more productive things with his time that run a small job. He can go out and bid more jobs for his "dream team".

Its a good little story and it makes sense. It pays to take care of your workers.

Like I said, there is always a need for cheap mule labor, but I don't believe the guys who's whole crew consists of it will go anywhere fast!
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Old 09-20-2001, 12:29 PM
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Stonehenge Stonehenge is offline
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Location: Midwest
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I have to agree with Guido - A well trained person making 50% more than a 'day laborer' as you define will still generate more money for you. The projects go so much more quickly, are done better, meaning fewer callbacks. As time goes on I find I'm looking more for people willing to invest at least a few seasons in this job. College guys who have not held any one job for very long will likely only last one season, and they are only getting to a decent proficiency level by the end of the season. Not worth the investment of my time training them.

As for the airlines, I think that industry is more regulated than ours, and I think it'd be unlikely that an 'under the table' illegal would be employed searching planes.

BTW, my wife just took her first flight since the 11th. Everything went fine. Very tight security, though.
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Old 09-20-2001, 08:33 PM
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brucec32 brucec32 is offline
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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that word always reminds me of "Spinal Tap".

Actually, I got that idea from a talk radio show. Someone called in and said that the guy they worked for picked up day labor when he was short handed and apparently passed them off as his regular employees. I mean really, you think they run a computer check on the cleaning guys every day?

Also, you'd be surprised how slack the security at airports really is. Some things are supposed to be done in terms of security with employees that just get rubber stamped sometimes.

Also, I believe at least two of the terrorists were reported to work for a food catering company that prepared meals for airlines. Might have been trying to see if they could sneak some sort of device on that way.

I'm not anti-immigrant, I'm just anti-unlimited mass immigration that destablizes the country.
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Old 09-29-2001, 12:10 AM
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gusbuster gusbuster is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Sunny Northern California, San Francisco Bay Area
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But what do you or can do when some of these guys get the sense and think they can do the same job you do.

These type of guys are the ones that bring down industry standards, pay and oppurtunities.

J-LC Landscaping & Maintenance Gardening
C-27 CA. Contr# 770044
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Old 10-06-2001, 12:08 AM
lawnboy11 lawnboy11 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New York, Nassau Co.
Posts: 181
Where I live no one except the day laborers want to do lawn maintenance. Everyone would rather sit in the AC in an orfice. Without day labor here there would be no labor here. 2 cents.
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