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  #11  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:01 PM
Gatewayuser's Avatar
Gatewayuser Gatewayuser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bug-guy View Post
talk is cheap lets see a label and a reciept!!!!!!!!!!!!
cheap fert is not good
good fert is not cheap

what % of scu ?
source of N ?
pot ash mop or sop ?
minors???
mn
mg
sulfur
iron
chlorine high or low directly relate to K

am i making any sense here or just preaching to the choir

you speak of tailor your program to fit but left out all the above...


sure I will go and get it n/p
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:18 PM
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Gatewayuser Gatewayuser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bug-guy View Post
talk is cheap lets see a label and a reciept!!!!!!!!!!!!
cheap fert is not good
good fert is not cheap

what % of scu ?
source of N ?
pot ash mop or sop ?
minors???
mn
mg
sulfur
iron
chlorine high or low directly relate to K

am i making any sense here or just preaching to the choir

you speak of tailor your program to fit but left out all the above...


FYI I was wrong its 18-13-22 got it backwards

10% SCU

10%iron

9% or less chlorine

.05% Zinc

Nitrogen
9.2% Ammoniacal
8.80% Urea

Muriate of Potash SP K20
Ammonium Phosphate

Also has Boron, Copper and such trace.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:35 PM
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grassman177 grassman177 is offline
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i get my 34 3 7 for about 13.70 per bag right now, i believe all mineral, no need for scu this late and cold as it will not leach or get used too fast. if lesco fert went up that much and the rest follow, wea re all screwed and no one will want to pay for our service
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:36 PM
bug-guy bug-guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatewayuser View Post
FYI I was wrong its 18-13-22 got it backwards

10% SCU

10%iron

9% or less chlorine

.05% Zinc

Nitrogen
9.2% Ammoniacal
8.80% Urea

Muriate of Potash SP K20
Ammonium Phosphate

Also has Boron, Copper and such trace.
10% scu ???
i'll admit i'm in fla. and that's not much here
ammonical over urea is cheaper
muriate potash (mop)is cheaper than SOP
again here in fla
you look at mg and mn in minors

gatewayuser
i not trying to pick on you or insult you
it's just you get what you pay for
discount distributors very rarely last for long
all they do is drive the market down and give false hope to individuals trying to price their services
you don't have to look hard to see raw materials are going up
lesco today maybe your supplier next week or the 1st of jan
urea cost 200.00 a ton in 04 it's expected to reach 650.00 in 08

i have also thought about switching my cust. to an ALTERNATIVE blend to reduce cost...
i can sell them 24-2-11 for 16.00 a bag
or another 24-2-11 for 14.00 a bag
but their not the same product
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:44 PM
bug-guy bug-guy is offline
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Location: spring hill/brooksville
Posts: 863
i hate rate increases i've been call cust and telling them it's not good!!
they tell me that they will come in to talk to me i tell them i'll be the one whose butt looks like chewed up jerky.
i was in in the game for over 20 yrs it hurts to see these guys and tell them prices sre going up.
this seems to be the only business that cost of materials out paces the charge for service... and if you raise your $ too much they just cancel their service
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:05 PM
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Gatewayuser Gatewayuser is offline
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FYI I am buying from a supplier that has been in business for over 100 years and they have 100s of branches across this part of the US. And liquid sprays they are more expensive. Also their fertilizer actually seems to work better then lesco's my customers even have noticed the difference. Many people in my area use the same supplier as I. Believe it or not many of them find it strange if you use another.
Also the SC is low but we don't have high temps now and its low enough N.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bug-guy View Post
10% scu ???
i'll admit i'm in fla. and that's not much here
ammonical over urea is cheaper
muriate potash (mop)is cheaper than SOP
again here in fla
you look at mg and mn in minors

gatewayuser
i not trying to pick on you or insult you
it's just you get what you pay for
discount distributors very rarely last for long
all they do is drive the market down and give false hope to individuals trying to price their services
you don't have to look hard to see raw materials are going up
lesco today maybe your supplier next week or the 1st of jan
urea cost 200.00 a ton in 04 it's expected to reach 650.00 in 08

i have also thought about switching my cust. to an ALTERNATIVE blend to reduce cost...
i can sell them 24-2-11 for 16.00 a bag
or another 24-2-11 for 14.00 a bag
but their not the same product
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  #17  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:28 PM
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rcreech rcreech is offline
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Location: OHIO
Posts: 5,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatewayuser View Post
I am going off of the soil samples. I bet you use 46 straight too because its so cheap. I don't rip customers off. True Penn State is saying you don't need (P) anymore necessarily however my sample called for it.
And what I see many times are companies putting down the same fertilizer for every lawn but I customize all programs to what the lawn truly needs. Nitrogen only does so much and with this drought we had this year I am working on the root systems primarily. And rcreech you should know this if you have a bs in turf, that is if you do cultural methods. I'm not ChemLawn and if you want to have low costs and charge low prices then go ahead but I don't have to compete with those kinds of companies. If you compare my lawns to "other" companies lawns you WILL see a large difference mine are the first to green back up and fill in the best and last to go dormant in poor conditions. I the 5 years I have been treating lawns I have never lost a lawn to another service provider.
Good advise for noobs though!
Gateway,

I don't even use urea and trust me I don't use cheap products!

I use 100% Lesco products (best you can buy in my opinion) which are well balanced fertilizers! I use 32-3-8 (25%SCU) and 32-5-7 (50% SCU). A product with 18% N and only 10%SCU would very rarely fit anywhere in my lineup. Do you use that as your "maintenance" fert or just on special situations?

All I was trying to point out is that if you apply 1# using your "cheaper source" of N your cost/K is about 30%.

Like someone said earlier....it is your cost/1000 you should be looking at and not the cost/bag!
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:35 PM
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rcreech rcreech is offline
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Location: OHIO
Posts: 5,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatewayuser View Post
FYI I am buying from a supplier that has been in business for over 100 years and they have 100s of branches across this part of the US. And liquid sprays they are more expensive. Also their fertilizer actually seems to work better then lesco's my customers even have noticed the difference. Many people in my area use the same supplier as I. Believe it or not many of them find it strange if you use another.
Also the SC is low but we don't have high temps now and its low enough N.
If you don't mind me asking...who are you using? Is it a co-op or Landmark?
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  #19  
Old 12-01-2007, 10:26 PM
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Gatewayuser Gatewayuser is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcreech View Post
Gateway,

I don't even use urea and trust me I don't use cheap products!

I use 100% Lesco products (best you can buy in my opinion) which are well balanced fertilizers! I use 32-3-8 (25%SCU) and 32-5-7 (50% SCU). A product with 18% N and only 10%SCU would very rarely fit anywhere in my lineup. Do you use that as your "maintenance" fert or just on special situations?


All I was trying to point out is that if you apply 1# using your "cheaper source" of N your cost/K is about 30%.

Like someone said earlier....it is your cost/1000 you should be looking at and not the cost/bag!
actually I use the 32-3-8 also from Lesco for my normal conditions. I only bought 10 bags of the landmark bags for the lawns that called for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcreech View Post
If you don't mind me asking...who are you using? Is it a co-op or Landmark?
You got it Southwest Landmark
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:20 AM
Hissing Cobra Hissing Cobra is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: On a green lawn
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatewayuser View Post
I am going off of the soil samples. I bet you use 46 straight too because its so cheap. I don't rip customers off. True Penn State is saying you don't need (P) anymore necessarily however my sample called for it.
And what I see many times are companies putting down the same fertilizer for every lawn but I customize all programs to what the lawn truly needs. Nitrogen only does so much and with this drought we had this year I am working on the root systems primarily. And rcreech you should know this if you have a bs in turf, that is if you do cultural methods. I'm not ChemLawn and if you want to have low costs and charge low prices then go ahead but I don't have to compete with those kinds of companies. If you compare my lawns to "other" companies lawns you WILL see a large difference mine are the first to green back up and fill in the best and last to go dormant in poor conditions. I the 5 years I have been treating lawns I have never lost a lawn to another service provider.
Good advise for noobs though!
I simply replied that based on your post, you were saving money between the products and then you listed the 13-18-22 analysis. I pointed out that more bags would be needed (based on the analysis, to provide 1# of N per 1,000 sq.ft. I never once stated that you ripped people off. By the way, your 13-18-22 analysis sounded more like a starter fertilizer than a regular fertilizer. I'm glad that it actually turned out to be an 18-13-22 instead. However, that's a lot of P to be applying on a regular basis and because P doesn't move through the soil, you're taking a chance at having an overabundance of it. Phosphorus levels in my neck of the woods are all through the roof and that's why the majority of the companies out this way use products that are very low in P.

You go on to state that you customize all of your lawn programs and apply what each lawn needs. With that being said, you must do extensive soil tests for each and every lawn and offer 100's of different programs? That seems highly unlikely and would seem like a perfect way of "over-analyzing" something to the point where it wouldn't even be profitable.

By the way, I don't use any 46-0-0.
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