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Old 03-27-2008, 12:17 AM
wrivers wrivers is offline
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Questions for experienced Octane/Quicksilver users

Do you actually get better control when mixing these products with other herbicides or does it just give you a quicker burndown and that's it? Will it help an SU work more quickly or effectively? Can you use lower rates of three way herbicides and get acceptable control? Thanks in advance. Wes
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Old 03-27-2008, 05:51 AM
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LushGreenLawn LushGreenLawn is offline
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Sometimes with the three way alone I had a hard time controlling clover. When we tank mixed octane we got an excellent, fast burndown. I also noticed that some henbit that I sprayed with the same mix was gone the next week.

The three Way works pretty good on everything that I get thats on its label except the clover, so I can only vouch for it making it more effective on that weed, but I woul;d have to assume it would make it work better on harder to kill weeds in your area. I am also happy with the quick burndown. Its worth the small added expense to knock those weeds down quick, and not have the customer wondering when somethings going to happen.

I have never tried lowering the rate, It doesn't reccomend it on the octane label so I don't think it would make a difference.
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:58 AM
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rcreech rcreech is offline
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I HIGHLY recommend Quick Silver!

In the past I ran 1.5 oz/K of Three Way. No matter what rate you use...you will never get those hard to control broadleaves.

About two years ago I started spiking my Three Way with Quick Silver and I reduced my Three Way to 1.1 oz/K.

AWESOME kill (you will see results within several days) and you will smoke hard to kills such as Ground Ivy and Wild Violet.

Used Octane last year on a bunch of acres and it had NO CONTROL on Wild Violet....so I went back to Quick Silver.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:43 AM
GREEN-UP GREEN-UP is offline
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I use octane and have had great success. Customers dont want to wait 7-10 days to see a yellow dandelion die. I am going to try quicksilver, see which is better. The stuff is expensive. I figure its an extra that ya need to compete in our business.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:48 PM
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RigglePLC RigglePLC is online now
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Quicksilver

Read the label very carefully for these three new and similar products. (ALS inhibitors). Sometimes they exaggerate their effectiveness. Octane says something like for "weeds 3 to 6 inches in height." (Probably means it will not work on big weeds). It also says it works for non-mature summer annuals. "Tank mixes with other herbicides may be needed for control of larger weeds."

Quicksilver does not list clover or white clover as one of the weeds controlled. (As a stand alone product).

Dismiss lists clover as one of the weeds "controlled or SUPPRESSED". To me, suppressed means almost the same as "not controlled."

These new products often are not labeled for oxalis, spurge, ground ivy or wild violets. Quicksilver is not labeled for dandelions.

However, I have found that Quicksilver containing products like Speedzone and Lesco Redzone are highly effective on purslane--turns it black in 24 hours. I have also seen great results and quick kill on mallow--which three way products did not touch.

I would like to hear what others have discovered using the products alone. I would like to know which weeds they actually kill--when not mixed with another herbicide.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:33 PM
shaneb shaneb is offline
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Something to keep in mind when evaluating both Octane and QuickSilver is their mode of action. They are both PPO inhibitors, which essentially means that in the presense of sunlight, they cause cell membrane disruption. They are not systemic products, thus used alone will never provide absolute or long term death, but they will provide extremely fast symptomology that customers want to see, but won't with slower systemic products. This is why they must be tank-mixed with a systemic (3-way, Manor, etc.) to provide permanant kill. In my opinoion, the only time you would want to use these products alone would be on very young seedling broadleaves in a newly seeded area where systemic herbicides would cause injury to the desired turfgrass. Their activity would be enough to kill the young weeds until the grass reached a mature size that would shade them out.

Now there is theory that the PPO weakens weeds to a level that allows the systemic product to more easily kill. This is probably the reason that these products are able to expand the weed spectrum of some systemics on certain weeds as mentioned in earlier posts like the clover with Octane and the purslane example above.

Riggle, you make great points that people need to read labels carefully and you are correct in that typically "suppression" does mean less than complete control and I would recommend using "suppression only" products only on weeds that you have limited choices for control. In the case of Octane and the label language talking about 3-6 inches, etc. etc. This is EPA driven primarily. The active ingredient in Octane is essentially 10 times as active as carfentrazone so if you look at the amount of a.i. being applied, Octane is put out at 1/10th the amount per A. In order to provide adequate burn down of large (> 6") weeds, more a.i. than EPA approved amount would be required. It's not that the product wouldn't work, simply regulatory constraints.

Sorry for the long winded comments, but thought some of you may be interested in how these products actually work.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:17 PM
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LIBERTYLANDSCAPING LIBERTYLANDSCAPING is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcreech View Post
Used Octane last year on a bunch of acres and it had NO CONTROL on Wild Violet....so I went back to Quick Silver.
Why would you use Octane on wild violet? It isn't labeled as a controlled weed?
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:49 PM
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rcreech rcreech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIBERTYLANDSCAPING View Post
Why would you use Octane on wild violet? It isn't labeled as a controlled weed?

Great question Liberty!

I knew that and so did my supplier (Lesco)....but the Octane salesman told him that it did.

Long story short...it didn't control Wild Violet as expected and the Octane folks made it right with me!

I am sure Octane works just as good as Quick Silver....just not on Wild Violet, which is a problematic weed in my area!

I HATE Wild Violet!

I switched back to QS... and I am now getting awesome control on Wild Violet again.
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:50 PM
MnLefty MnLefty is offline
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Rates on the spikers?

What rates of Octane/Quicksilver are you guys using in these mixes? The label rates have such a relative wide range, high rate being 2x the low rate on Octane... obviously that means high rate costs 2x the low rate.

How about spreader/stickers when using these mixes? Helpful? Not necessary?
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  #10  
Old 03-28-2008, 02:50 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb View Post
Something to keep in mind when evaluating both Octane and QuickSilver is their mode of action. They are both PPO inhibitors, which essentially means that in the presense of sunlight, they cause cell membrane disruption. They are not systemic products, thus used alone will never provide absolute or long term death, but they will provide extremely fast symptomology that customers want to see, but won't with slower systemic products. This is why they must be tank-mixed with a systemic (3-way, Manor, etc.) to provide permanant kill. In my opinoion, the only time you would want to use these products alone would be on very young seedling broadleaves in a newly seeded area where systemic herbicides would cause injury to the desired turfgrass. Their activity would be enough to kill the young weeds until the grass reached a mature size that would shade them out.

Now there is theory that the PPO weakens weeds to a level that allows the systemic product to more easily kill. This is probably the reason that these products are able to expand the weed spectrum of some systemics on certain weeds as mentioned in earlier posts like the clover with Octane and the purslane example above.

Riggle, you make great points that people need to read labels carefully and you are correct in that typically "suppression" does mean less than complete control and I would recommend using "suppression only" products only on weeds that you have limited choices for control. In the case of Octane and the label language talking about 3-6 inches, etc. etc. This is EPA driven primarily. The active ingredient in Octane is essentially 10 times as active as carfentrazone so if you look at the amount of a.i. being applied, Octane is put out at 1/10th the amount per A. In order to provide adequate burn down of large (> 6") weeds, more a.i. than EPA approved amount would be required. It's not that the product wouldn't work, simply regulatory constraints.

Sorry for the long winded comments, but thought some of you may be interested in how these products actually work.
Control of qxalis is also helped by carfentrazone. I could never get satisfactory control of this weed with regular Three-way type herbicides. Banvel worked much better, however this is very dangerous for trees and shrubs. Triclopyr and fluroxypyr is out of the question for me, warm season turf and high daily temperatures limits the tolerance of the turf. The PBI Gordon products are very good, especially Powerzone and Speedzone. I never cared for Trimec because of the poor results.
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