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  #1  
Old 02-16-2009, 04:47 PM
Mike75 Mike75 is offline
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Pre-Emergent on Zoysia Help

My zoysia sod was laid last June and I did not use a pre-emergent last fall because it was so young. However this spring I would like to. I called my local Lesco, and he was not sure what was safe or not safe on the Zoysia. I want to use a granular product with the absolute best results. Is pendamethalin safe on Zoysia, because I am leaning towards the 0-0-7 Pendamethalin from Lesco but wanted to check with the real experts first. He said it comes in a 50 lb. bag and will cover 10,000 sq. ft...is this correct? Thank you for your consideration.
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2009, 07:10 PM
Mike75 Mike75 is offline
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Really, none of you can assist me?
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:08 PM
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Think Green Think Green is offline
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Mike,
Go back to Lesco and find that salesman--employee--or whatever he is and jerk him over the counter and slap some since into him...................
He works in turfgrass sales of products that control and fertilize turf. If he does not know what he is selling you then he needs to hit the back door.

Yes, Pendimethalin is safe for use on Zoysia grasses. Dimension is safe for use as well. Granular products will need to be applied and activated with 1/2 of water from a steady rain or water system. If it is 55 degrees there already then chances are weeds are popping up. It may be closing on the time to apply pendimethalin.. Talk to the rep and watch the temps in your area...
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Mike75 Mike75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think Green View Post
Mike,
Go back to Lesco and find that salesman--employee--or whatever he is and jerk him over the counter and slap some since into him...................
He works in turfgrass sales of products that control and fertilize turf. If he does not know what he is selling you then he needs to hit the back door.

Yes, Pendimethalin is safe for use on Zoysia grasses. Dimension is safe for use as well. Granular products will need to be applied and activated with 1/2 of water from a steady rain or water system. If it is 55 degrees there already then chances are weeds are popping up. It may be closing on the time to apply pendimethalin.. Talk to the rep and watch the temps in your area...
Thank you for your response. Believe me, I am upset and extremely let down by my Lesco rep. I was under the impression that it would be in his job description to know a little bit about the products he sells. Once again, thanks.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:43 PM
quiet quiet is offline
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Again, slap that boy at Lesco around. Put down either pendi, dimension or better still, prodiamine (Barricade or Cavalcade).

But this spring and early summer concentrate more on your fertility program. Get the zoysia thick and dense this year, and you won't have much of a need for pre-m in the future. Find fertilizers with a good percentage of slow release N and high in K to develop a deep root system.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2009, 12:27 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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I prefer not to use the traditional preemergent herbicides. They prune roots and thin out the turf, setting up ideal conditions for weeds to invade. If you must, use Barricade. It does not leach down as deep as pendimethalin and lasts longer. Zoysia wants up to 1/2 lb N per month and 1/4 lb K per month. Both of those are applied at that rate per month of active growth, stopping 1 month before the zoysia ends active growth in the fall.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:09 PM
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greendoctor,
Please excuse me for being illiterate in Hawaii's soil make up, but here in Arkansas, the soil is highly clayic (I am in the high transition zone). I need for the Pendimethalin to go down somewhat and not leach away with our torrential rains we seem to always get. We have the large window of application as long as we can get the stuff down before the heavy rains begin. Yes, it does prune the root systems on shallow rooted grasses like those grown in our clayic soils, but so does the roots of the weeds too. Roots do not penetrate the clay as readily as sandy loam, loam, clay loam, loam silt. It is a catch 22 situation in controlling either the weeds or the grass... LOL! So we fertilize the poop out of it to recover. Once the Zoysia is thick and full, we can reduce the outbreaks. The months of April through July are fine, but when we reach August(The Dog Day Month), the season is dry and watering efficiently is hard. The water evaporates before it hits the hard, parched soil.

Thank You for your response!
Your application of 1/2 lb of N per K and 1/4 lb of K per K is what we are doing but not exactly on a perpetual monthly basis.
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:21 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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The clay here is probably as bad as what you have in Arkansas. Turf does not root very deep into the soils here. In my location, I am also lucky if I get 10-15 inches of rain per year. If I did not see what effect pendimethalin has on turf for myself and understand what was going on, yep I would be doing Pre-M on a 4 month split in the attempt to squash weed germination that occurs 12 months out of the year. It is a little different in that all fine turf here is on irrigation. The other difference is most fine zoysia or bermuda lawns are cut at almost putting green heights with reel mowers. From what I understand, root pruning herbicides are not recommended for putting greens. It is way different maintaining a lawn at a 11/2-3" cut versus a 1/4 to 1/2" cut. I am usually maintaining turf that is more like a putting green. I am really screwed if whoever installed the lawn did not have the sense to rip out the clay soil and replace it with a USGA standards media. It is then like trying to keep a push-up green alive. Then again, when the lawn is established on a sand based media, the grass is 100X easier to maintain. It gets by on less fertilizer, and weeds are even less of an issue, because the grass grows tight enough to choke them out. That still does not prevent weeds, in fact overwatering will bring many grassy weeds into the picture. When the label on Barricade or Pre-M prohibits usage on putting greens, I guess that also applies to my situation. Much of my weed management centers around that intensive fertilization program and very tight control of irrigation. I do use non root pruning preemergents such as simazine and Image or Gallery. I could go the other way and opt for a conventional fertilizer program with Pre-M, but that would mean maintaining the lawn in a way that is outside of the norm in Hawaii. People just do not like long grass here.
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  #9  
Old 02-19-2009, 12:43 PM
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Mike

There are two schools of thought on Pre Emerge. Those who use it and those who don't. I am with GreenDoctor on the root pruning issue and don't use Pre Emerge. Now neither schools wrong just different and you will find this common in the green industry. Several Years ago I was an expert witness in a court case. The attorney who was suing tried to discredit me with loaded questions that had two schools of thought. He had done his homework and had several questions with two answers ready along with documentation. I reconized the books on his court desk and knew I was going to be drilled. So I answered each question trying my best to stay out of his trap as he challenged my Credentials. My first answer caught him off guard because it was in fact Is there value in Pre Emerge chemicals. He of course was ready to present documentation different to which ever way I answered. I was lucky and beat him at his own game by giving both sides.

Now as for Zoysia. My take is Zoysia is so resistant to post emerge herbicide that weed control in Zoysia is to easy to waste your time or money on Pre Emerge and take the change of stunting root growth. Once again there are two schools of thought. I will add Pre Emerge to spot treatment of weeds if I feel it might help in certain very bad areas.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:48 PM
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Mike

BTW In my area I find Fungus to be the biggest problem with Zoysia. I use slow release fertilizer for a slow feed and Fungicide on a regular bases. A thick health turf is the best weed control.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

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"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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