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  #211  
Old 02-22-2009, 10:17 PM
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whoopassonthebluegrass whoopassonthebluegrass is offline
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Originally Posted by capnsac View Post
...Let them scoff at your small operation, but then when they see the house your living in, the car your driving, etc. Let that do the talking, they'll question and wonder how you are doing what you are doing.
Better yet, forget wasting your money looking flashy. Just keep a low profile and no one but your banker will ever know how successful you are... up till you build that dream home in cash and retire in your prime.
  #212  
Old 02-22-2009, 10:46 PM
capnsac capnsac is offline
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Originally Posted by whoopassonthebluegrass View Post
Better yet, forget wasting your money looking flashy. Just keep a low profile and no one but your banker will ever know how successful you are... up till you build that dream home in cash and retire in your prime.
Speaking from experience are ya?
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  #213  
Old 02-23-2009, 01:31 AM
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whoopassonthebluegrass whoopassonthebluegrass is offline
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Speaking from experience are ya?
Not entirely.

I started out wanting the nice stuff, but over the past few years, I've transformed. My ambitions mirror what I suggested, but I'm not there yet.

If I stick to my goal and budget, though, I'll OWN the dream house I already bought (but maybe shouldn't have) - with ZERO debt (business or personal) in 8-10 years. (And that's based on my business remaining stagnant and not increasing its profits.)

At that point, it's just a matter of how much I feel I need to save for retirement...

And to me, owning everything I have and want and being in complete charge of my life before I'm 40... well, that vision is worth more than any hot rod, vacation, or palace on the planet.
  #214  
Old 02-23-2009, 08:49 AM
capnsac capnsac is offline
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Originally Posted by whoopassonthebluegrass View Post
Not entirely.

I started out wanting the nice stuff, but over the past few years, I've transformed. My ambitions mirror what I suggested, but I'm not there yet.

If I stick to my goal and budget, though, I'll OWN the dream house I already bought (but maybe shouldn't have) - with ZERO debt (business or personal) in 8-10 years. (And that's based on my business remaining stagnant and not increasing its profits.)

At that point, it's just a matter of how much I feel I need to save for retirement...

And to me, owning everything I have and want and being in complete charge of my life before I'm 40... well, that vision is worth more than any hot rod, vacation, or palace on the planet.
Before 40, wow. When did you get into the lawn care business and at what age did you have the epiphany that changed your frame of mind?
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  #215  
Old 02-23-2009, 08:59 AM
delphied delphied is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopassonthebluegrass View Post
Not entirely.

I started out wanting the nice stuff, but over the past few years, I've transformed. My ambitions mirror what I suggested, but I'm not there yet.

If I stick to my goal and budget, though, I'll OWN the dream house I already bought (but maybe shouldn't have) - with ZERO debt (business or personal) in 8-10 years. (And that's based on my business remaining stagnant and not increasing its profits.)

At that point, it's just a matter of how much I feel I need to save for retirement...

And to me, owning everything I have and want and being in complete charge of my life before I'm 40... well, that vision is worth more than any hot rod, vacation, or palace on the planet.
In a hundred years it just wont matter. Smell the roses along the way.
  #216  
Old 02-23-2009, 09:23 AM
larryinalabama larryinalabama is online now
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Originally Posted by PROCUT1 View Post
Larry

As far as rent vs buy.

I have no problem buying.

If you have the cash in the bank for that 12k skidsteer. By all means buy the sucker.

Pay for it once and you own it free and clear.

Most guys however will rent a skidsteer for a couple jobs and say "Dang this thing is awesome, i can get a lot of work with one of these"

Then they will head down to the CAT dealer, pick out a new one, sign the papers and off they go with 7 years of payments.

Im just saying why pay 5000$ per year to rent one, when you can but a decient skid for 12000$. Now if you need one for a day 3 or 4 times a year then renting makes sense. Going out and buying a new 40000$ machine makes no snese unless Bob Cat work is going to be your main line of work.
  #217  
Old 02-23-2009, 10:28 AM
Jay Ray Jay Ray is offline
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I rented a small skid steer once last year, getting toward the last of the Katrina cleanups. Mechanically sound, ragged looking, $225 for the day plus fuel. No way am I buying another machine to store and maintain when there are so many out there looking to put theirs to work -- and we have beaucoup retired Seabee operators here.

It might be because so many bought one right after Katrina that there are so many machines, and for other parts of the country buying one would make sense.

If I were renting a few times a month I would rethink it.
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  #218  
Old 02-23-2009, 10:39 AM
larryinalabama larryinalabama is online now
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Originally Posted by whoopassonthebluegrass View Post
Good thread. A few years back I had pie-in-the-sky visions. Then I realized that the dream I was chasing (the keep-up-wht-the-Joneses-dream) was a complete waste and totally a lie. As Dave Ramsey so eloquently puts it:

[People stupid with money] buy things [they] don't need, with money [they] don't have, to impress people [they] don't like.

This applies every bit as much to business life as personal. Somehow we think there's a prestige involved with driving a truck that has a $600 payment. Somehow we think that if our skidsteer or mower is bigger or more powerful, that somehow we're the superior business. Somehow we think that spending money like we don't have to think twice about it will somehow magically make the act become a reality.

"Living the American Dream" is most folks' kryptonite. Flashing nice stuff equals success? Give me a break. Hell, on this very forum, I had a guy try to claim his superiority over me because he drove a fancy car... which he did not yet own. WTH???

Just recently my truck died. I had folks encouraging me to replace my dead truck with a brand new one. What a waste of money! Instead I bought a F350 crew cab long bed with 58k on it for $5,000 cash! I own it - it doesn't own me. And my ROI on that truck will be better than any new truck could ever do.

It's been said already, but I'll add my voice to the list: not understanding your operating costs will lead to failure. It may not put you out of business (if you stay small), but you'll still be a failure.
Sounds like a nice truck, Ill bet it cuts grass just as good as a new one.
  #219  
Old 02-23-2009, 12:05 PM
Ramairfreak98ss Ramairfreak98ss is offline
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Originally Posted by PROCUT1 View Post
And to add.

Now your customers, who you have been mowing for $30 are getting flyers in their mailboxes everyday with $20 prices.

They want you to match the price or they will try them out.

What now?

It costs you more than $20 to do the lawn.

Now you post a "lowballer" thread or a "how can he work so cheap" thread here on lawnsite.

But in reality.

The guy at $20 is making a lot more money at that price than you are even if you doubled his price.

Until he decides to grow................
Very true, i like the story We've been beat up with "lawn accounts" all last year and even so the year prior.. $20 companies/jo smoes coming in now cutting our $40/$45/even $50+ accounts with small and cheap machines all day long.

Reliability and customer service and professionalism dont mean squat to clients these days, at least not 90% of them. Ive built this business to the point that i can offer all 3 at an affordable rate. But why will a client choose to pay my rate over a guy thats 20% cheaper that offers nothing but just the straight service thats on the contract... cut lawn once a week for $20?

I've felt like i've been in the MID area for a while now. I keep saying im a "small company" which by my income sure as heck feels like it. I went from push mowing lawns to doing everything now. Your competition frequently out prices you in any aspect.

Hard to compete with hardscaping because the 100% hardscaper comes in cheaper, faster, more efficient, cheaper labor workers, cheaper product, better supply costs and can probably do a better job sometimes too than I can.

Landscaper comes in that does it 100% of the time, again cheaper supplies, cheaper labor, bang, 20 10' tall trees in the ground in 5 hours and customer is happy, my customer :/ because they were $300 cheaper in the end.

Irrigation companys come in, you bid 3k for a install job for your own client. 1800sprinklers comes in and offers it for 2k, or less even. I dont know this until the end, i try to cut down on almost all profits off the job, to offer the job for $2300 to the long time client, he tells 1800sprink that another company was lower, even though i was not, they come back $1800 WITH 7% sales tax, WTF? they get the job, client now reviews everything we do for them and thinks that we over charge, one client switched his lawn company even for 2008 because we were $39 a cut, xyb company/joe says he can do it for $28, he asks me for counter offer, i said we dont cut anything less than $30!

I can go on and on, this has to be one of the toughest "labor" businesses out there. I see big huge companies fail all the time especially now with the economy. Companies that i hated because they sucked up all residential patios and landscape jobs last year now will have zilch for work and i know are probably going to go under by end of 2009. It seems every year I've made huge drastic adjustments to where we focus our core services.

Started, i built up the lawn mowing business, look at the mowers i own now, and we now use them all 1-2 days a week, they sit for most of the week every single week.

Then bolstered landscaping, tree installs, planting, garden drip irrigation.... last year was way low on that too.

Started 12v high end lighting, did a few last year, but just mostly quotes and then sticker shock for potential clients, they go and buy a $300 malibu kit and never call me back :/

Started tree services, trimming, pruning.... now we have 3 chainsaws, pole pruners, powered telescoping pole pruner, ropes, harnesses, probably well over 10k plus a small chippper...... i used this stuff 2x last year for small jobs.

Started bulk commercial maintenance, one employee lost our only better Echo hedge trimmer that was in mint condition but 2yrs old :/ Bought 2 new stihl 81s, 24" for 1k. We got the dump trailer, built sides on it, now need a f550 12' landscape body dump truck and dump insert for the other truck.

50-60% of our work last year was maintenance, commercial mulching and trimming and weeding and bed edging services. I never thought my nearly 4k hydro bed shaper from Little wonder would ever pay off when i got it 2yrs ago. But this work is difficult at best, long lists of work with completion deadlines, employee problems, one guy wants to be home by 5pm, another 7pm, another will sleep on the mulch pile overnight and work until 11pm if i wanted.

Then after putting in 60+hrs a week for a month straight doing this work, it comes to a halt, you go back to your 2-3 residential jobs a week and now instead of needing 7 guys you need yourself and 1-2 others if that.

I go from having every truck out each day in april to 5 trucks and more trailers sitting the whole rest of the year.

Fall comes and every joe with a leaf blower wants to blow leaves for $20 an hour when we need a minimum of $150 in 2008 just to entertain sending 2-3 guys out to cleanup, blow or collect and remove leaves and fall debris.

Then you get a call from one commercial account that they're unhappy because your guys didnt pickup and dispose of a huge 6' wide, cut down hedge that another house contractor hacked at the base in may, your guys mowed around it the whole year and now they expect this to be removed as part of their leaf cleanup? It never ends.

We have a customer list of probably 500 clients, only maybe 40 are active in the present time, we've only gained as many as we lost each year for the past 3 years it seems. Its always something, or lower prices, or they move, or they do the work themselves. I feel the days of 5-10yr clients and contracts are long over. My longest is 4yrs i have a few people, most are 1 season and thats it, yet most claim they were happy with the service.
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  #220  
Old 02-23-2009, 12:23 PM
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jlawnman jlawnman is offline
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I am living proof to what Procut just stated... I owned and operated a lawn care/ landscaping outfit for 12 years and had to sell because I couldn't deal with that "mid" years... I had the same expences as the "big boys" but didn't have the big accounts to back it.

I'm back in the business now and am perfectly comfortable with one truck and my 2 helpers during the summer and working bymyself during the winter...

I so love what I do and don't want to make the same mistakes I did before..

What Procut said makes perfect sense. you have to ask yourself when you're getting into this and start growing.. Do I want to be huge or do I want to keep it small and simple and keep all the money I make? 60k a year and about 10k set aside for the unexpected is just find with me. Once you get several trucks and 10 or so employees, the rules change and it's too much for most. KEEP IT SIMPLE & GET TO WORK!
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