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  #11  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:12 PM
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treegal1 treegal1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Yup. Hit it with undiluted tea and water in with the irrigation (light), wait a week, irrigate enough to flush the soil (target depth should be >= 4") .... let soil reach field capacity .... do it again for a total of 2-3 times.

When your done with your flushing, compost and CT with your over seeding.

Will this work .... don't know, but IMO it is your best bet if you want to seed before fall.
Iwill 2nd that...
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  #12  
Old 05-06-2009, 09:32 AM
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upidstay upidstay is offline
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Yes, a good aeration and power raking will shatter the chemical barrier created by the pre-emergent.

Heard from the manufacturer of Dimension and Pendimethalin that the chemical does in fact create a chemical barrier in the soil. There are no systemic properties.
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  #13  
Old 05-06-2009, 10:11 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by upidstay View Post
Yes, a good aeration and power raking will shatter the chemical barrier created by the pre-emergent.

Heard from the manufacturer of Dimension and Pendimethalin that the chemical does in fact create a chemical barrier in the soil. There are no systemic properties.
I would like to see the How it Works on that supposed 'barrier'.
I have done a lot of searching already and found nothing of a 'barrier'.
Telling people they can shatter the 'barrier' with aeration, is... welll... u know....
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2009, 10:16 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Interesting question, we had a minor league field in the mid atlantic call us. Their seeding program was failing big time the field only had 60% coverage and they had the season starting up in 4 weeks.

I asked why so little coverage, what happened, fungal issues last year? NO, they said, we mistakingly put down 16 times the amount of dimension that we were supposed to in November (my head of course is spinning, 16X and in November??? what ***hole would do that, apparently I had him on the phone)

Plan of action, our compost tea at 4X the rate once a week, continue seeding after the second week. Just spoke with them 2 weeks ago right after the season started and it worked like a charm, I have asked for pictures

So if you have to get something out of the soil that is a problem, send the bio boys in to eat it for lunch. There are many that consider things like that as food
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  #15  
Old 05-06-2009, 10:26 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
.... So if you have to get something out of the soil that is a problem, send the bio boys in to eat it for lunch. There are many that consider things like that as food
For microbes, just about everything is food and/or broken down one molecule at a time. Life on this planet would cease without microbes.

We have overseeded with just smoothing out the dead spots with topsoil on supposedly pre-m ground. Actually I don't think the stuff is all that effective that it can overcome much volume of soil.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2009, 10:56 AM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Do I dare play devils advocate and use this moment to remind people that synthetics don't kill the microbes in the soil.. unless overly concentrated?

Hmmm... I probably shouldn't.
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2009, 11:07 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Do I dare play devils advocate and use this moment to remind people that synthetics don't kill the microbes in the soil.. unless overly concentrated?

Hmmm... I probably shouldn't.
Yes, you probably shouldn't given that general statement is wrong. I'd be willing to bet a fungicide will kill mycorrhizal fungi, regardless of the concentration.

Do you know the effect of all synthetics on microbe population dynamics? I don't, nor does anyone else. How is it you do know?
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2009, 11:28 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Do I dare play devils advocate and use this moment to remind people that synthetics don't kill the microbes in the soil.. unless overly concentrated?

Hmmm... I probably shouldn't.
If you want to look at it another way, by applying "whatever" you are selecting for certain strains of microbes. It is a strategy that can be used to your advantage

Find the guys that are most prevelant at a toxic spill and chances are they like the toxin as food.

microbes wear a lot of different hats depending on the trigger, food or environment, they produce enzymes, motabolites, slime, etc. If we can select for certain ones get good to great populations and use known triggers to our advantage............well...... it is often to our advantage
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  #19  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:19 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
If you want to look at it another way, by applying "whatever" you are selecting for certain strains of microbes. It is a strategy that can be used to your advantage

Find the guys that are most prevelant at a toxic spill and chances are they like the toxin as food.

microbes wear a lot of different hats depending on the trigger, food or environment, they produce enzymes, motabolites, slime, etc. If we can select for certain ones get good to great populations and use known triggers to our advantage............well...... it is often to our advantage
I had the pleasure of being involved in a toxic spill... involving a gasoline tank...

I learned from the "Cleanup Crew" ... that the naturally occurring microbes that eat this stuff had been - enhanced - to eat gasoline even quicker.

This 'NEW bug is now - named and copyrightted - as the official spray for toxic waste problems...

Natural processes would have done the job... but the bio-engineered stuff was 'garanteed' to do it within bureaucratic paramaters...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2009, 08:16 PM
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Barefoot James Barefoot James is offline
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Since nobody asked the obvious???

Did they kill the lawn last fall? Did the lawn have crabgrass last year? If so leave it alone and let the pre do its thing and seed in fall. If the lawn had no crab before, the be up front and honest with customer and let them now you have zero idea if the seed you put down "now' will germinate but you are going to try a few techniques to do your best.
First use a high quality seed - Pennington Smart Seed with mycorrhizae, power seed it in deep and top dress it with finished compost. Water 3 to 4 times a day for 3 weeks - even if it just rained and plan on repeating process in fall - sorry great lawns cost $$$ - thats why we do what we do.
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