Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-30-2009, 09:29 PM
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting's Avatar
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Muskoka, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,935
I dont know about flimsy Billy... if you are doing it right they are pretty darned good, and you wont find many areas with more wild and rugged conditions than here. Deer, Moose, Bears, we get it all. The only problem I have had is with those darned wild arborists!
__________________
James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
JSLDesign Inc.


www.integralighting.com

www.facebook.com/INTEGRA.Lighting

Affiliations: IESNA, IALD, IDA, AOLP, LO, MBA
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-30-2009, 10:23 PM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
Wild arborist account for more tree light failures for us than anything combined.

Further instead of removing the fixture carefully the proceed to beat it off the trunk/limb with a hammer or ax so the can load the log. I lost 4 tree lights due to limbing of a pine tree... all the lights were found on the ground severly beaten. Client called me to reinstall and asked about the lifetime warranty
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-30-2009, 10:53 PM
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting's Avatar
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Muskoka, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,935
Been there done that! We actually have one tree-man around here who is a colleague and his guys take great care when removing the lights. But the rest... hammers, axes, whatever they have, then drop them to the rocks below.
__________________
James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
JSLDesign Inc.


www.integralighting.com

www.facebook.com/INTEGRA.Lighting

Affiliations: IESNA, IALD, IDA, AOLP, LO, MBA
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-03-2009, 10:43 AM
Tomwilllight's Avatar
Tomwilllight Tomwilllight is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 293
How to attach lights & wire to Living Surfaces

I HIGHLY recommend that no fixture or wire ever be mounted DIRECTLY on the surface of any living plant. The growth of the surface will eventually (often sooner than later) overwhelm the device by growing around it.

Trees grow by swelling in diameter and grow longer ONLY through their tips. That is not common knowledge. Even the National Electrical Code's requirements assume that trees stretch as they grow. The NEC is just wrong.

Please note the photos below. The transformer is still where it was attached, the tree is growing around it. In the second photo, you'll see how the tree can grow around a too tight attachment.

If you put a nail in a tree at 5 feet, that nail will continue to be at 5 feet for as long as that tree lives. The nail may disappear because the tree has grown around it, but that nail will NEVER be higher off the ground.

I recommend the use of Stainless Steel "hanger bolts" (essentially lags screws with machine threads on the other end) to mount j-boxes or what ever mount you choose to use. Landscape Lighting Supply in Richardson, TX makes an UL approved J-box that come with the hanger bolts included. Cast has also seen the light with their tree mounts... Talk to them to find out how to order.

It is easy to set a hanger bolt with a hanger bolt driver. The driver spins onto the machine thread end. The Lag screw end of the bolt is then screwed in to the tree, leaving the machine threads exposed. Reverse the drill and the bolt driver is off the bolt. You then your run a nut down the hanger bolt to where they want the base of the mount to be. Set the mount on the hanger bolts (you will need at least 2) and set and tighten down another nut.

I also follow a similar practice with wire. I use deck screws to secure the electrical ties that have loops in them. I leave about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of screw sticking out to allow the tie to move. That works for many trees. If your trees are a faster growing species you'll just have to adapt. Willow & River Birch are a problem here - I check them yearly to make certain these fast growing species are not in trouble.

DO NOT USE HANGER STRAPS! They promote the growth of fungus and squeeze the cambium layer closed. They KILL TREES by very slow strangulation!

See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vascular_cambium> for a good illustration of the way trees grow.

We have been through this before - and James continues to suggest we all should use Arrow staples. He ignores the fact he's attaching wire to very slowly growing trees in climax community forests. His experience is completely different from those of us who hang our lights in younger and much faster growing specimens.

Tom
Attached Images
   
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-03-2009, 01:39 PM
JoeyD's Avatar
JoeyD JoeyD is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 2,965
Our Strat Bracket is supplied with standoff hanger bolts for this reason. Great post Tom!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-03-2009, 05:42 PM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
Tom it seems like you and I attach the wires in a very similar manner. You choose to use deck screws and I just use stainless pan head screws. We NEVER tighten them down and do in fact leave them out a bit. Sorry if this was not clear.

I do it like this because during maint checkups if there is a problem we can cut the zip tie and back out the screw and resecure it with zero damage to the tree.

On the hanger bolt install. I have a deepwell socket on the end of a cordless drill. I install the first nut and use this to turn the hanger bolt in. I only install them as deep as needed to create a solid fountation. Uniques hangers are shorter and fatter... CASTS are long and skinny. I preffer the cast ones in a thick barked tree but preffer the uniques on things like river birch. I really do need to start carrying my camera more with me to photograph some of the OOOPS I come across. I dont always carry it for fear of the heat and humidity
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:54 PM
Tomwilllight's Avatar
Tomwilllight Tomwilllight is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 293
Deck Screws...

Hi Billy,

Deck screws work for me because they are stainless and come in a variety of colors in a ceramic coating. If I can knock down any brightness, I go for it. In addition, because deck screws are wood screws, they have a long shank without threads that allows the tie to "float" on the screw a bit. It's just another way to allow the tree to push the wire away.

I buy both screws and ties from HD. Easy and always in stock.

I get my hanger bolts & drivers from Professional Hardware & Supply on the web; there are others who sell the same.

It's a good thing that Cast and Unique both have come to understand the need for mounts that don't damage trees. If you ever hang any line-voltage, you may want to try Landscape Lighting Supply's tree mountable J-box. Better machining than the Greenlee T box with more room and less expensive.

We haven't had a summer yet... rain without end, but no hot weather. Are you Mississippi folks going to keep all the hot for yourselves this year?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-04-2009, 08:04 PM
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting's Avatar
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Muskoka, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomwilllight View Post
We have been through this before - and James continues to suggest we all should use Arrow staples. He ignores the fact he's attaching wire to very slowly growing trees in climax community forests. His experience is completely different from those of us who hang our lights in younger and much faster growing specimens.

Tom
Tom, yes I have had fantastic success using the Arrow T59 Staples when attaching wire to trees. No, I am not ignoring that in some immature and fast growing species that the staple technique will not be ideal. In fact, I have clearly stated several times that if you are putting lights into small, young or fast growing species then you will probably have to use another method.

In my experience, it is best to pick fully mature trees in which to mount lights. That way, you can place them high enough off the ground in order to maximize the effect.

Before you completely disregard my advice, you might wan't to try the Arrow T59 staple method. They are not like typical wire staples in any way, shape or form. I do have more than a bit of experience in this.
__________________
James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
JSLDesign Inc.


www.integralighting.com

www.facebook.com/INTEGRA.Lighting

Affiliations: IESNA, IALD, IDA, AOLP, LO, MBA
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-04-2009, 08:10 PM
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting's Avatar
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Muskoka, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomwilllight View Post
We have been through this before - and James continues to suggest we all should use Arrow staples. He ignores the fact he's attaching wire to very slowly growing trees in climax community forests. His experience is completely different from those of us who hang our lights in younger and much faster growing specimens.

Tom
Tom, yes I have had fantastic success using the Arrow T59 Staples when attaching wire to trees. No, I am not ignoring that in some immature and fast growing species that the staple technique will not be ideal. In fact, I have clearly stated several times that if you are putting lights into small, young or fast growing species then you will probably have to use another method.

In my experience, it is best to pick fully mature trees in which to mount lights. That way, you can place them high enough off the ground in order to maximize the effect.

Before you completely disregard my advice, you might wan't to try the Arrow T59 staple method. They are not like typical wire staples in any way, shape or form. I do have more than a bit of experience in this.
__________________
James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
JSLDesign Inc.


www.integralighting.com

www.facebook.com/INTEGRA.Lighting

Affiliations: IESNA, IALD, IDA, AOLP, LO, MBA
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-05-2009, 09:02 AM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
Man Tom I wish we could send some of this heat up to you. We worked 10 hours in it on Monday and I came home and my fingers were shaking. I was SLOW all day tuesday and only accomplished 3 hours of work then called it quits. Now I have gotten 3 calls in the last 2 days so it looks like we need to pick up the pace a bit and buckle down. Staying hydrated is our biggest problem in this heat a humidity but we got forcast for low 90's all week so if we do the 6am to 2pm shift we should be ok.

If its heat you crave please, by all means feel free to come down and enjoy it with us.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.com™ - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:05 PM.

Page generated in 0.11608 seconds with 10 queries