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  #31  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:54 PM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc-jrock View Post
What source of N do any of you recommend for late fall apps? Is urea considered organic/natural?
Urea is anything but organic.

If you want to go organic you could hit HD or Lowes and beat the garden center mgr up & down to get a 'wholesale' deal on a 1/2 skid of Milorganite 6-2-0:

http://www.milorganite.com/professional/uses.cfm
(But I'll bet ya a Blatz you won't get the same deal Smallaxe gets in Milwaukee ! )
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Or you could do what we do, and contact your local grain elevator or rural farmer's co-op for current availability of high protein grain meals such as soybean meal (6-1-2), alfalfa meal (3-1-3), cotton seed meal (6-2-2), corn meal (2-0-0), or... hell...THIS late in the season you'd get away with using blood meal (13-2-1) without a whole lot of fear of burning the turf.

The thing about blood meal (typically derived from either swine or poultry) is that the rate of application (maximum 5# / K sq ft) is EXTREMELY LIGHT compared to that of the aforementioned grains (15# - 20# / K sq ft).

But bear in mind, blood meal is typically 2 to 2 1/2 x more expensive, too.
And, of course, also understand that some folks on your list may take issue with you using an animal-derived product like blood meal on their lawn.
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  #32  
Old 10-08-2009, 05:28 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Why not try the best of both? Nutrients PLUS Screamin Green 16-2-3 has 5 different sources of N: urea, SCU, ammonium sulfate, composted poultry manure, and biosolids. It provides some quick release and long term release of N exactly when turf calls for it. And the benefits of organic matter.
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  #33  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:03 PM
Snowy66 Snowy66 is offline
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I knew it wouldn't be long before Barry chimed in! NP Screamin Green is working great for me! Thanks for your help Barry. My lake customers like my choice in fert!
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  #34  
Old 10-09-2009, 05:29 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
Q: What likely happened to quick-release "winterizer" fertilizer applied around Thanksgiving in Wisconsin?
A: The lion's share of it no doubt ended up either in surface tributaries or your area's drinking water aquifer.

What's the avg soil temp where you are right now?
It's got to be on the decline, and fast...
Do you think you'll still get significant plant up-take this fall from your October round of Milorganite?
I have already tested the fertilizer apps' effectiveness for this time of year, based solely on - 'greenup'. Fert apps early in October - one can see the grass greenup later in Oct. Apps done in the 3rd qtr do not exhibit any color change b4 the end of the season.

The thing I regard about Milorganite and other organic ferts is that they 'release' at the rate of the microbes in the soil. If the microbes are active -the roots are active, and the ferts is being consumed as needed.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #35  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:16 AM
nc-jrock nc-jrock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Why not try the best of both? Nutrients PLUS Screamin Green 16-2-3 has 5 different sources of N: urea, SCU, ammonium sulfate, composted poultry manure, and biosolids. It provides some quick release and long term release of N exactly when turf calls for it. And the benefits of organic matter.
Isn't urea a synthetic? I thought that Nutrients plus products were all natural.
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  #36  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:13 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc-jrock View Post
Isn't urea a synthetic? I thought that Nutrients plus products were all natural.
There are several Nutrients PLUS formulations.

The Fortified Line are "bridge" products that contain some urea, SCU & Ammonium Sulfate in addition to composted poultry manure and biosolids. Nutrients PLUS does not make any claims of these products being all natural. What we do claim is that these products provide great results with less N plus the benefits of organic matter.

The Nutrients PLUS 100% Natural Line contains only natural ingredients such as composted biologically active poultry manure and/or Exceptional Quality Biosolids. Other natural products may contain plant auxins, feather meal, molasses, soluble humates, corn gluten meal.

The combination product line contains the EPA registered pre-emergent prodiamine.

So with Nutrients PLUS you have choices on which type of products best suites your business.
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  #37  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:46 AM
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FERT-TEK FERT-TEK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I have already tested the fertilizer apps' effectiveness for this time of year, based solely on - 'greenup'. Fert apps early in October - one can see the grass greenup later in Oct. Apps done in the 3rd qtr do not exhibit any color change b4 the end of the season.

The thing I regard about Milorganite and other organic ferts is that they 'release' at the rate of the microbes in the soil. If the microbes are active -the roots are active, and the ferts is being consumed as needed.
Smallaxe, do you buy your Milorganite direct from the factory in Milwaukee? If so what do they charge per bag. I am close enough that I could make the drive if the price is right.
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  #38  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:04 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
There are several Nutrients PLUS formulations.

The Fortified Line are "bridge" products that contain some urea, SCU & Ammonium Sulfate in addition to composted poultry manure and biosolids. Nutrients PLUS does not make any claims of these products being all natural. What we do claim is that these products provide great results with less N plus the benefits of organic matter.

The Nutrients PLUS 100% Natural Line contains only natural ingredients such as composted biologically active poultry manure and/or Exceptional Quality Biosolids. Other natural products may contain plant auxins, feather meal, molasses, soluble humates, corn gluten meal.

The combination product line contains the EPA registered pre-emergent prodiamine.

So with Nutrients PLUS you have choices on which type of products best suites your business.
Thanks for clarifying, Barry.

From what I've seen & heard around the country at trade shows etc, the term 'bridge product' is by no means universally understood yet on all the front lines of the fert biz.

So, maybe you could please help this understanding along a little bit more, by beginning to include this term in your occasional lawnsite pop-ups for your "fortified line" that includes the oft-advertised Nutrients PLUS Screamin Green 16-2-3 (?)
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  #39  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:56 AM
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starry night starry night is online now
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Yes, you would only know that some were bridge products by looking at his website.
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  #40  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:17 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I have already tested the fertilizer apps' effectiveness for this time of year, based solely on - 'greenup'. Fert apps early in October - one can see the grass greenup later in Oct. Apps done in the 3rd qtr do not exhibit any color change b4 the end of the season.

The thing I regard about Milorganite and other organic ferts is that they 'release' at the rate of the microbes in the soil. If the microbes are active -the roots are active, and the ferts is being consumed as needed.
Wait a minute, Smallaxe.
When you talk about the "release of microbes" here, I believe you're getting the cart in front of the horse with your use of Milorganite.

In order for microbes to survive in the soil profile for any length of time, they need a sufficient & consistent source of protein.
Just because Milorganite is 100% organic origin doesn't nessissarily mean it contains protein:
http://www.milorganite.com/docs/prof...11_English.pdf

Here's something on Milorganite that the Lawnsite Organic Forum Moderator Dan Hall posted on here 5 1/2 years ago:

"Milorganite does not have (microbial) pathogens in it. Before it was incinerated at 1,000 degrees F, it had plenty of pathogens in it but nothing survives 1,000 degrees. Personally I don't see how it can have any value left in it, but I'm not stupid enough to say it doesn't work. Too many thousands of extremely satisfied customers to fight that battle. Clearly something about it works.

Many of the heavy metals shown in the Milorganite list are also components of any multivitamin with minerals. My understanding is that ordinary Centrum vitamins would be considered toxic waste if dumped into a sewage system."

___________________________________________

I'll go even further than Dan to assert that Milorganite is essentially the equal to the blatantly nutritional-deficient Quarter Pounder w/ Cheese.
It'll make you happy for a while, but it surely won't make you healthy.

It's of 100% organic sources, yes.
But it's been homogenized to such a temperature that it's essentially no different in terms of feeding soil microbes than any other generic fertilizer on the shelf, meaning that... it doesn't.
But it's marketed in the box stores like HD, Lowes and on the radio & TV quite strongly, and thus it entices organic wanna-bees everywhere both residential & commercial to grab their respective 'green' brass ring.

My ultimate point:
Simply 'greening the grass' and 'feeding the soil' with the use of protein, are two entirely different concepts altogether.

Last edited by Marcos; 10-09-2009 at 11:22 AM.
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