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  #11  
Old 01-26-2010, 12:53 PM
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LawnmastersMikejr LawnmastersMikejr is offline
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I have racked my brain with this over and over again and the conclusion I came to was it wasnt worth it to me to pay based on performance. In the end you will get sloppy work and unhappy customers. I would reccomend a pay raise and if that doesnt motivate them tell them to go get government jobs where they can be slow!
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2010, 02:50 PM
tapout40 tapout40 is offline
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Very difficult subject here. I am looking for a solution myself. Been contracting lawns for 7 years and tried everything. I did the per lawn payment system and I was getting complaints like crazy. The guys were flying through the lawns and leaving clumps everywhere, grass on sidewalks and mulch beds. Per hour basis and they dont get any done. Pay the main grass guy more and let him run the show. Eventually I would like to install cameras on the trucks.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2010, 05:08 PM
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EagleLandscape EagleLandscape is offline
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Search Pro Cuts response to this a few months back.

basically tell your employees it has to get done in a certain amount of time, or you will find someone that will get it done.

end of discussion.
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2010, 06:19 PM
OrganicsMaine OrganicsMaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwingfield2k View Post
Search Pro Cuts response to this a few months back.

basically tell your employees it has to get done in a certain amount of time, or you will find someone that will get it done.

end of discussion.
This would probably work well in the current economic conditions. However, I would say that you need to consider this: How much does it cost to rehire and train a new employee, once you find one that is up to your standards? If your guys know your route, and do decent work, first take a look at your business and make sure that you have dotted your i's and crossed your t's. That is, is your equipment up do date, and well maintained. Do you have your routes laid out perfect? Is your shop organized....no matter if it is a shed in your parent's back yard, or a full blow shop. You need to set the example first, then integrate your employees. If they aren't able to step it up, then you look elsewhere.

I also think that bonuses should be tied to profitability, if they are getting call backs, that hurts the bottom line. Again, if you are well organized, then you should know how much you are making before and after expenses, thus being able to calculate bonuses.

Just my 2 cents!
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2010, 06:34 PM
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nobagger nobagger is offline
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Some of you guys really need to read up on labor laws. You cant have a guy run YOUR EQUIPMENT and still consider him a sub contractor, he is now an employee. There are certain laws to hiring, paying and keeping an EMPLOYEE. In a nutshell sub contracting means, he uses his/hers own equipment, and there is a ton more things that defines a sub vs. an actual employee. READ UP! Your taking a big risk.
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2010, 06:40 PM
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JB1 JB1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobagger View Post
Some of you guys really need to read up on labor laws. You cant have a guy run YOUR EQUIPMENT and still consider him a sub contractor, he is now an employee. There are certain laws to hiring, paying and keeping an EMPLOYEE. In a nutshell sub contracting means, he uses his/hers own equipment, and there is a ton more things that defines a sub vs. an actual employee. READ UP! Your taking a big risk.


you will have to agree it has been some interesting reading. WOW
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  #17  
Old 02-01-2010, 08:36 PM
JLL25 JLL25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobagger View Post
Some of you guys really need to read up on labor laws. You cant have a guy run YOUR EQUIPMENT and still consider him a sub contractor, he is now an employee. There are certain laws to hiring, paying and keeping an EMPLOYEE. In a nutshell sub contracting means, he uses his/hers own equipment, and there is a ton more things that defines a sub vs. an actual employee. READ UP! Your taking a big risk.

I got this kind of response before when I suggested to someone to pay their guys like a subcontractor. I have found no laws stating that a subcontractor has to have their own equipment in my state. In fact the law spells it out for me that what makes them a sub is that they are supposed to give me an estimate for a certain amount of work and then whether or not they complete the work in the estimated time frame they still get payed per their estimate price. Kind of like a salaried employee, but I must have a proof of their insurance. Thats it. I guess not all states are the same in this aspect.
Thats how the law reads, thats what my lawyer told me, and my insurance agent (who is also my subs agent) said this is common and legal.
Perhaps you should create a "rental agreement" for your equipment and hire "subs"...

Bonuses are a great motivator, but you have to stick with the agreement. Sure none of us like to fork over chunks of money to someone for just doing a good job...I mean its not like we get to take money from them when things go wrong on a job. Paying by the job on everything is just stupid...
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  #18  
Old 02-02-2010, 07:21 AM
MarcSmith MarcSmith is offline
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gotta remember what the state says is one thing. how the feds see it could be different.

here is the IRS web site and what it thinks.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=99921,00.html

here is My Op. Of course my opinion and $1 may still get you a candy bar...

A sub contractor is someone you hire to do a job. who generally provides his/her own tools, and is not directed on HOW to complete a task. The Sub contractor generally bid a job and is paid a final price based on the completion of the job. Ie you hire an electrician to wire up your shop.

an employee
An employee is generally subject to the businessís instructions about when, where, and how to work. All of the following are examples of types of instructions about how to do work.
When and where to do the work.
What tools or equipment to use.
What workers to hire or to assist with the work.
Where to purchase supplies and services.
What work must be performed by a specified individual.
What order or sequence to follow when performing the work.

the litmus test IMO is discipline. if you can discipline a person. then they are an employee... You generally cannot discipline a subcontractor.

take a look at the fed site it may change your mind...
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:24 AM
NorthTXlawnguy NorthTXlawnguy is offline
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Very well put Marc. If I read correctly from the beginning of this post the goal is some growth of a one man operation. This can be a big step from my experiences. No matter how you pay or if you actually sub-contract when you hire someone else it is highly unlikely they will do the same or as good a job as you, especially in your eyes. If you can find someone who is trainable I found it best to hire them and work side by side for a couple seasons. The downfall here is you have to ad quite a few accounts by the time you add up all the costs of basically doubling your work crew. Even at $10 an hour you will have many other cost increases, such as workers comp. insurance. Plan, plan, plan and good luck to ya!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcSmith View Post
gotta remember what the state says is one thing. how the feds see it could be different.

here is the IRS web site and what it thinks.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=99921,00.html

here is My Op. Of course my opinion and $1 may still get you a candy bar...

A sub contractor is someone you hire to do a job. who generally provides his/her own tools, and is not directed on HOW to complete a task. The Sub contractor generally bid a job and is paid a final price based on the completion of the job. Ie you hire an electrician to wire up your shop.

an employee
An employee is generally subject to the business’s instructions about when, where, and how to work. All of the following are examples of types of instructions about how to do work.
When and where to do the work.
What tools or equipment to use.
What workers to hire or to assist with the work.
Where to purchase supplies and services.
What work must be performed by a specified individual.
What order or sequence to follow when performing the work.

the litmus test IMO is discipline. if you can discipline a person. then they are an employee... You generally cannot discipline a subcontractor.

take a look at the fed site it may change your mind...
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:24 AM
JB1's Avatar
JB1 JB1 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: From the hills of beautiful Southern Indiana
Posts: 5,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcSmith View Post
gotta remember what the state says is one thing. how the feds see it could be different.

here is the IRS web site and what it thinks.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=99921,00.html

here is My Op. Of course my opinion and $1 may still get you a candy bar...

A sub contractor is someone you hire to do a job. who generally provides his/her own tools, and is not directed on HOW to complete a task. The Sub contractor generally bid a job and is paid a final price based on the completion of the job. Ie you hire an electrician to wire up your shop.

an employee
An employee is generally subject to the businessís instructions about when, where, and how to work. All of the following are examples of types of instructions about how to do work.
When and where to do the work.
What tools or equipment to use.
What workers to hire or to assist with the work.
Where to purchase supplies and services.
What work must be performed by a specified individual.
What order or sequence to follow when performing the work.

the litmus test IMO is discipline. if you can discipline a person. then they are an employee... You generally cannot discipline a subcontractor.

take a look at the fed site it may change your mind...




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