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  #1  
Old 10-30-2009, 03:24 PM
morefan morefan is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 15
DFS Vac System

I recently purchased a new Toro Z400 w/21Kaw. Am wanting to get a bagging system of some sort for it. Have been trying to research info. regarding the Toro DFS system. It is amazing how little information I have been able to gather. Toro website provides very little info. that I have been able to find. Haven't been able to find much on Lawnsite regarding recent models. (did find some "not so great" reviews from 2002). Have spoken to my dealer twice about it. He's never sold one, doesn't have one, and hasn't been able to tell me much, other than the price. My dealer contacted local Toro rep, because I was wanting to find one here locally so that I could actually SEE one in place and get some issues resolved. The closest one is over 125 miles away??!!! I really do prefer to make educated decisions regarding the purchases that I make; which is why this is such a frustrating situation. I am wanting to make a purchase, would prefer to stick with my dealer, but simply need a few questions answered. So now, my questions : where are the specs for the various Toro bagging systems on your website, (or any other accessories)?
Weight? Length? Installation/uninstallation? Are weights required on the front of the machine? Can a Toro rep. provide a "demo" for my local dealer? I would greatly appreciate further information from Toro!
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:36 AM
The Toro Company The Toro Company is offline
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Morefan - Sorry that you have had difficulty getting answers to your questions. If you would kindly provide us with the model and serial number of your Z400 Series mowers we can provide you with the information you have requested. It would also be helpful to get your zip code. Product demos are the responsibility of the local dealer, but in this case it doesn't sound like your dealer a history of selling baggers with this Z. We can check to see if there is a bagger demo somewhere else close by.

-The Toro Company
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:09 AM
morefan morefan is offline
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Thank you for your response. I have model #74448, ser# 290001073. My zip code is 73010.
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2009, 12:01 PM
wildncrazyguy wildncrazyguy is offline
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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morefan, When you get the info or opportunity to demo, please share. I'm looking for similar information and your post described what I was thinking perfectly.

I, however, need to get the mower first. I'm trying to lean towards Toro, because I've had good luck with them in the past, but I'm a homeowner and don't do this for a living (yet, maybe, ???). But for now, I'd like to see a homeowner model with a vac, but there is none to be found. Talked briefly to my dealer the other day and he was informative and helpful. Something about the weights to be added won't work on a homeowner model. Have to step up to a commercial for the strength and durability and horsepower, etc. etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, I think Toro makes a good product, but I guess I just need to see the Homeowner Timecutter or Titan beside a Commercial to see the difference to be able to hold a vac system. I'm not buying it. (No pun intended) I'm sure the difference is more that it's designed around the commercial mower, because that's who's going to buy it 98% of the time. They could make one designed to fit the homeowner model, but there just probably isn't the demand for it to make sense. That I can understand as well... Just frustrating because as a homeowner, it's hard to justify spending that much on a commercial product. I like nice things, but...

Anyway, long winded, sorry... but I've not ruled out buying a commercial unit yet, so I'd like to see what you come up with and definitely opinions on performance. Like does it have the power to get the lawn that "squeaky" clean? My main concern is with the amount of leaves I have to offer it, will I spend most of my time riding to my dumping point? Like will it fill up in 3 minutes? You get one short strip done, time to go dump... What's the vac going to actually give me more than a traditional bagger system? Anyway, please tell us what you find and good luck on your potential purchase.

Last edited by wildncrazyguy; 11-03-2009 at 12:07 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2009, 02:53 PM
The Toro Company The Toro Company is offline
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Morefan -

Most of the info you are requesting is contained in our 2009 Commercial Landscape Equipment full line brochure on pages 16 & 17. Hopefully you received a copy from your dealer. Here are the particulars for your machine.

78536 Z400 Series E-Z Vac Blower & Drive Kit for 48” deck
78541 Z400 Series DFS Rear Bagger for 48” deck
Length of mower with E-Z Vac DFS bagger installed 98.3”
Width of mower with E-Z Vac DFS bagger installed 61.7”
Total dry wt. of E-Z Vac Bagger 180 lbs
DFS capacity 8.3 cubic ft (6.7 bushels)
Weights – 2 weight plates that install under the cross bar connecting the deck carrier frames

As far as installing/uninstalling the collection system, it’s probably best to review the necessary steps in the bagger operator manual. You can access it on the Toro.Com website under the section labeled Parts & Manuals (Lower left side of home page). Click on Landscape Contractor Parts. Enter your model number, select the proper serial range and then click on manuals. You can view the operator manual online or print it out.

It would appear that getting a demo unit will prove to be challenging as the local dealer decides which products they will put into their demo fleet. With so many different models and accessories available it’s impossible to cover more than a couple of different units and those are typically the best sellers or new models the dealer believes will be top sellers. In this case it doesn’t sound like your dealer has had much success selling baggers so that’s why he doesn’t have one in his demo fleet. Toro reps don’t have access to demo units, again that’s the responsibility of the dealer, so getting one from the rep isn’t an option. I can tell you we’ve had this bagger in our line going on 4 years now, and it has been very reliable. When bagging leaves, the best bet is to install Toro “low sail” blades. This will eliminate blowout that can occur with high sail blades. The other key is to ensure your deck is set low enough to provide a good seal between the deck and the grass. This will ensure good vacuum and help eliminate blowout. However, if bagging grass, use Toro “high sail” blades for the best performance. We hope this information is helpful.

-The Toro Company
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2009, 09:07 AM
morefan morefan is offline
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Thank you for your quick and detailed response. I did not have a brochure and did not think to look at the online manuals. That info. helps tremendously.
While I found that the closest "for sale" unit is over 125 miles away, my dealer is hoping to find a unit that is in use somewhere closer. I still would really like to actually see it in use. Thank you again for your assistance.
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2009, 09:23 AM
morefan morefan is offline
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wildncrazyguy,
I will keep you posted as I (if I), find out additional information. I am one that tends to spend too much time researching, debating, "mulling over", various purchases. But, considering the "chunk of change" required, I try to make the best decisions that I can. I will tell you, I am loving my new Toro. The quality of cut has been great. (I cut solid bermuda, fescue, and combinations of grassy/broadleaf weeds with some bermuda mixed in). I have had, and have seen other machines just "lay over" and/or miss blades or strips. Not so with this Toro.
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:44 AM
wildncrazyguy wildncrazyguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morefan View Post
wildncrazyguy,
I will keep you posted as I (if I), find out additional information. I am one that tends to spend too much time researching, debating, "mulling over", various purchases. But, considering the "chunk of change" required, I try to make the best decisions that I can. I will tell you, I am loving my new Toro. The quality of cut has been great. (I cut solid bermuda, fescue, and combinations of grassy/broadleaf weeds with some bermuda mixed in). I have had, and have seen other machines just "lay over" and/or miss blades or strips. Not so with this Toro.
Thanks Morefan. Sounds like we have alot in common. I do the same when I'm making a purchase like this. I'm sure I'd love the Toro along with a VAC bagger. It's just really hard to try to justify that kind of money to the wife if I won't be making money with it as most of the folks on here do. It would probably last me the rest of my life, even if I decided to make a few bucks with it...

I'm just trying to understand, because I've never had one, what the difference a VAC will make over a bagger. Keeps the bagger from getting clogged less? More for leaves than anything else? Bagger unit not effective with huge amount of leaves... Just not sure why to spend a couple thousand dollars for the VAC vs. bagger. If I could use a bagger only to do what I need, a homeowner Toro should work, but I'm guessing I need the VAC...

Thought I found a perfect used Toro commercial last night about 3 AM. Craigslist searching while I was having to resolve a critical ticket at work. Poster posted at like 1:30 AM. Good price, fairly new, sent email because it was 3 AM. Got in to work this morning and dealt with another critical issue, then went to Craigslist to get the number, and the post is gone. Just my luck. And it was only about 25-30 minutes away...
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2009, 01:40 PM
The Toro Company The Toro Company is offline
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Wildncrazyguy -
Collection system design/preference really depends on the cutting deck and the application. Commercial machines typically run at faster grounds speeds, and commercial decks run faster blade tip speeds and tend to be larger (52”, 60” and 72”) and deeper (5” – 5 Ĺ”) than most decks found on homeowner machines. Because commercial mowers typically discharge grass/leaves directly out the side of the deck a power assisted vac system is typically used due to the larger volume of material being process from the wide area decks and the physically longer distance from the discharge end of the deck to the rear bags/hopper. You can also incorporate a much lower cost “hang-on” type of steel mesh or nylon grass catcher on commercial equipment, but the capacity is typically 2 to 3 bushels and therefore it will fill up very quickly. On the flip side, homeowner machines often run slower and have smaller, shallower decks with more of a rearward oriented top-discharge opening which provides a more direct route to process clippings/leaves to the bags/hopper. Since homeowners typically have more time to complete the task they can afford to run slower which reduces the need for a power assisted vac.

As far as application goes, commercial collection systems typically allow you to cut and bag at faster ground speeds with reduced plugging. If you push a non powered bagger too fast, quality of cut can suffer due to material build-up inside the deck, plus the chances of plugging the tube increases significantly. Collection capacity on commercial systems is also typically much greater. For these reasons commercial contractors typically go with a commercial collection system because they can do more work in less time.

Hope this info helps.

-The Toro Company
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:55 PM
StihlBR600's Avatar
StihlBR600 StihlBR600 is offline
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Im purchasing a E-Z Vac system for my z400 also. My model number is 74449. I want to know how many bushels the twin bagger holds
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