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  #21  
Old 12-31-2010, 01:32 PM
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turf hokie turf hokie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yard_smart View Post
I was touching back on the point that marketing and sales will trump knowing the ins and out of the technical side. The guy above mentioned that not knowing what a 3 way plug is and using stock photos to a point made us less of a company... a legit company that is.

Just proving a point.
Your point is NOT proven, mine is....you have failed on the mere definition of what a stock photo is, those that you posted are not stock photos. The ones that you still are using in your website banner are stock photos (from someone that you are not even affiliated with).

Apparently your marketing and sales skills failed also, from what you posted, the only jobs you got were low bid commercial work and 2 referals (that I assume only used you because you were cheaper than the other guy) you failed to be knowledgeable enough to actually sell work, those jobs you had a 0% close rate, that is awesome, way to trump technical skills with your sales skills.

Not sure what led c-7 you are speaking about on an earlier post but no way you get 1800 on a 15 amp breaker you are overloaded by about 1/3. Sales skills and marketing will in no way, shape or form trump the techinical skills when you burn a house down and cant explain how the hell that just happened......

I usually dont go at someone like this but you sir, do not belong in this business or any other business for that matter. Where did you get your training? Probably a big box company that believes that as long as more customers come into the funnel than go out you have a good business model, screw customer service and quality of work.....
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  #22  
Old 12-31-2010, 04:10 PM
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GreenI.A. GreenI.A. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf hokie View Post
Your point is NOT proven, mine is....you have failed on the mere definition of what a stock photo is, those that you posted are not stock photos. The ones that you still are using in your website banner are stock photos (from someone that you are not even affiliated with).

Apparently your marketing and sales skills failed also, from what you posted, the only jobs you got were low bid commercial work and 2 referals (that I assume only used you because you were cheaper than the other guy) you failed to be knowledgeable enough to actually sell work, those jobs you had a 0% close rate, that is awesome, way to trump technical skills with your sales skills.

Not sure what led c-7 you are speaking about on an earlier post but no way you get 1800 on a 15 amp breaker you are overloaded by about 1/3. Sales skills and marketing will in no way, shape or form trump the techinical skills when you burn a house down and cant explain how the hell that just happened......

I usually dont go at someone like this but you sir, do not belong in this business or any other business for that matter. Where did you get your training? Probably a big box company that believes that as long as more customers come into the funnel than go out you have a good business model, screw customer service and quality of work.....
unfortunetly he may not learn until his insurance is buying a fire victom a new home; and he's mentaly dealing with the fact that his short cuts lead to someone loosing hopefully nothing more than all the posetions that have taken a lifetime to accumulate.

I'm started thinking about doing holiday lighting this past fall, I have a verygood understanding of amps, watts, volts and how to calculate and measure these. I am still waiting until nest season to introduce this service as I plan to attend training from two of the large manufactuares before I finalize who I will use. Last thing I want is to be the reason someones holiday season is ruined by the loss of a home or even worse.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2011, 06:38 AM
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addictedtolandscaping addictedtolandscaping is offline
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I would prefer the expertise on the technical aspect over sales any given day of the week. I also would at any given point prefer to utilize actual project photos over stock or some one else's project on the same given day. It comes down to a case of integrity, if you know and understand what you are talking about, then simply you can and will sell jobs. I ran into a ton of problems this season with selling, I can talk the talk and walk the walk. When I switched my approach, my close rate went from 0 to 85%.

When you talk with a client, you have to know and understand your power availability and usage, you have to know what the max load you SHOULD be putting onto a circuit, what you SHOULD be maxing your wiring at and what you amp draw is regardless of knowing it off the top of your head or using a meter. IF you are using fused products, you have to know what your max is end to end, and you have to be able to design a way to continue the feed so the project has a professional presentation. This business is not as my son described it "Christmas Light Throw Up," this is a business where you deal with peoples well being, and safety. This is a business of know what the technical problems are, and knowing how to design and install a beautiful presentation working within the limits you are up against or coming up with a way around them.

Knowing the technical aspect is also going to give you the ability to tap into sources for power for add ons if need be, when and where you can do that. Sales come with knowing what the hell you are doing and not killing a family because you burn down a house while people are sleeping when they instilled their confidence that you were "a professional" and would get their dream display installed and they would not have to worry about it.

Our goal is to have c-7, c-9 mini lights etc be our display, not a street lined with fire trucks, ambulances and police cars because we just destroyed a home or worse yet a family because someone didn't make it out.
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:31 PM
Tq23 Tq23 is offline
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Who would have thought a little post about a sale on 3 ways would be this entertaining.........
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:00 PM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is offline
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I agree that anyone who installs Christmas lights should have excellent training, and install lights in such a way that looks pleasing and most importantly not endangering the folks that live there.

On selling, marketing and technical merit, I am reminded of selling cars 17 years ago when I was helping a friend that needed salesmen. I studied all the options and specs on all the pontiacs, isuzus and cadillacs, and made it a point to walk the lot every morning and know what used cars we had traded for. I actually thought that being informed and being able to answer questions intelligently would help me sell. But watching the other sales folks, and watching potential buyers buy from other dealers, I learned a seemingly impossible truth.

People buy wrong.

They make decisions that are bad for thier finances and bad for thier family, and do not listen or care to listen to reason when it comes to spending money. And those bad decisions are mostly the result of a very good ( or bad ) salesman who knows how to take control of the customer and close them no matter what.

I had a competitor several years ago who closed 2-300 new customers in 3 years by selling walmart c-9 lights and doing it cheap,cheap cheap. he was a great salesman who went out of business in year 4 because he had no clue how to run a business. he sells real estate now, and probably does quite well, because he is a great salesman.

I think you can succeed in this business by being great at what you do, having an excellent reputation and selling the best product. but if your competitor is a better salesman than you he can and will close work that you would have gotten, even if he does crap work.

I read, train and work every year to be a better salesman and have a better Christmas light biz.
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  #26  
Old 01-03-2011, 08:06 AM
OrganicsMaine OrganicsMaine is offline
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I have to say that I agree with both sides of this argument. Being a business owner, I agree that marketing can bring your business to much higher levels than just doing good work. And, unfortunately, anyone that can market well will gain market share from companies that do superior work. They will probably lose it pretty quickly, but they can have an impact.

Being a Christian, I believe that doing the job correctly and honestly is the right way to go, so I focus a lot on marketing, but make sure I know what I am doing.

That said, as I really begin to plan for the next Christmas lighting season(my first), where do you all recommend going for quality training. I do plan to look hard at HBL, but what other resources are out there?
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2011, 11:17 AM
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yard_smart yard_smart is offline
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All guys watch a webinar each year including my self and have to take a test. It's basic circuits and electrical stuff. I feel confident in our service there for I have no problem selling the ability of my company.

As for being the lowest - Incorrect.

No resi work this year because handy men and tight budgets could not afford us.

As far as "the couple of roof tops" this was a project that was covered in two area news papers as well as awarded to us with out being put out for bid.

Also if my math is wrong please correct me I am always willing to learn but from everything I have found the formula for amps is as follows
watts/volts=amps?

each bulb is .008 amps

15/.008=1,875

is that not correct?

"I usually dont go at someone like this but you sir, do not belong in this business or any other business for that matter."
Now I take that personally but I understand you are upset when typing that so I will let it go.

PS - My non-technical sales skills sold that downtown lighting project for over $9 per foot on a 3 year contract.
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2011, 11:39 PM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is offline
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I am finding more and more on amps per bulb on leds do not seem to have a linear math. I am finding that, yes, LED's draw less amps, but resistance amps in cord seem to be cropping up more and taking away some of LED's power saving thunder. I have mentioned in another thread of my experience with 1100-1200 LED c-7's this year that were advertised as .56 watts and turned out to be closer to 2.3 watts each or so once you put them in 250 foot runs on a tree.

Unfortunately, just because a manu. says they only draw x does not make it so. but once installed, a fluke rms quality meter typically does tell the truth, and I would test your 1800 bulbs and get an actual reading of how many amps. my experience tells me that, for now at least, you will not get consistant readings on LED power usage on any given group of 1800 bulbs, even from the same manu.
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2011, 12:45 AM
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yard_smart yard_smart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Gretzmier View Post
I am finding more and more on amps per bulb on leds do not seem to have a linear math. I am finding that, yes, LED's draw less amps, but resistance amps in cord seem to be cropping up more and taking away some of LED's power saving thunder. I have mentioned in another thread of my experience with 1100-1200 LED c-7's this year that were advertised as .56 watts and turned out to be closer to 2.3 watts each or so once you put them in 250 foot runs on a tree.

Unfortunately, just because a manu. says they only draw x does not make it so. but once installed, a fluke rms quality meter typically does tell the truth, and I would test your 1800 bulbs and get an actual reading of how many amps. my experience tells me that, for now at least, you will not get consistant readings on LED power usage on any given group of 1800 bulbs, even from the same manu.
Great Post thanks David!
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