Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:10 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Don't bet on it.



See what I mean... To me it looks like those salts were dissolved and settled into the low spot in one picture, and acroos the top of the other field entirely.
Where were those pictures taken and is it really salt??
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:35 AM
phasthound's Avatar
phasthound phasthound is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mt. Laurel, NJ
Posts: 4,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
My viewpoint .... people should do their homework before taking exception to others posts.
Good, since I know you've done your homework, tell us in your own words what happens when organic matter is decomposed?
__________________
Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:18 AM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
not very important? Ummm... helllllllllllo?

If microbes didn't produce ions (the same exact one's in fertilizers), how is non-soluble organic "fertilizer" made available to plants? Really, please answer this.

K'mon man! It is the very CORE of what you like so much about the association of plants and soil microbes!

JD, I was just trying to be nice and let you off the hook, rather than pick apart the phrasing you used. I was referencing my misunderstanding of what the heck you meant by your statement;
Quote:
Note usually. In fact, most of the ions that are in fertilizers are produced by microbes themselves.
Do you mean that microbes make the same ions as are found in fertilizers or do you mean that microbes (themselves) produce the ions which are in fertilizers. The latter means that microbes are utilized to produce synthetic fertilizers.

Why do you instead use this to attempt to belittle? Iíve already stated my stance in one of the two current threads on the subject.

You continue to speak from a standpoint of ignorance. Just because the molecular structure of synthetic ions and natural ions are similar and just because various bacteria feed on ions in synthetic fertilizers does not equate to; there is nothing wrong with using synthetics supposedly responsibly or correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:32 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Good, since I know you've done your homework, tell us in your own words what happens when organic matter is decomposed?
What is this ..... biology 101?

Decompose = break down into constituent parts.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:39 AM
JDUtah's Avatar
JDUtah JDUtah is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UT
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
What is this ..... biology 101?

Decompose = break down into constituent parts.
lol Kiril I know you know you are dodging the bullet.

And quit honestly it appears like two of you need a refresher course in... biology 101.

It is basic stuff after all.

BTW I am still waiting for an answer. Do soil microbes use the same ions as are found in synthetic fertilizers?

Last edited by JDUtah; 01-16-2011 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:43 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
See what I mean... To me it looks like those salts were dissolved and settled into the low spot in one picture, and acroos the top of the other field entirely.
Where were those pictures taken and is it really salt??
In both cases the salt deposition is most likely due to E(T) exceeding precipitation. The second pic is in India, not sure where the first one is. Here is one from CO.

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:50 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,330
Tell me JD ... what exactly do I need to be refreshed on?

Perhaps you would care to explain how microbes produce the very same ions as are found in synthetic fertilizers? You made the statement .... now clarify it.

And with respect to your sad attempt at deflection, I have no intention of entertaining your ridiculous straw man argument.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:07 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Howard County MD
Posts: 4,120
what is interesting about this debate every time it comes up is that no one seems to listen

almost (maybe everything) everything that hits the soil is food for something, be it fertilizer, dead mouse or an old shoe. The microbial populations will increase to the point of how they can exist with the food available, case in point is the oil spill spring 2010 in the gulf, the microbe population that likes to eat oil exploded and consumed a majority of the oil that was spilled after the food was consumed there is typically a huge die off and those dead microbes are consumed by something else

If you are applying fertilizers you are selecting for the microbes that like to eat fertilizer, if you are applying a diverse food like compost or a ferment of many inputs, kelp, fish, sugars, carbohydrates, amino acids you are selecting for a much wider variety of microorganisms and the higher predators that consume them and the ones that consume them and the ones that consumes them

It is about the type of food that you are applying to get the best result, one thing that is often forgotten is that the plants themselves are also feeding the microbes in the soil through exudates and in turn making nutrients plant available in the soil to the plant, these symbiotic relationships in the soil, when nurtured, can be a powerful way to reduce inputs
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:17 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
what is interesting about this debate every time it comes up is that no one seems to listen
Or read studies posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
almost (maybe everything) everything that hits the soil is food for something, be it fertilizer, dead mouse or an old shoe. The microbial populations will increase to the point of how they can exist with the food available, case in point is the oil spill spring 2010 in the gulf, the microbe population that likes to eat oil exploded and consumed a majority of the oil that was spilled after the food was consumed there is typically a huge die off and those dead microbes are consumed by something else

If you are applying fertilizers you are selecting for the microbes that like to eat fertilizer, if you are applying a diverse food like compost or a ferment of many inputs, kelp, fish, sugars, carbohydrates, amino acids you are selecting for a much wider variety of microorganisms and the higher predators that consume them and the ones that consume them and the ones that consumes them

It is about the type of food that you are applying to get the best result, one thing that is often forgotten is that the plants themselves are also feeding the microbes in the soil through exudates and in turn making nutrients plant available in the soil to the plant, these symbiotic relationships in the soil, when nurtured, can be a powerful way to reduce inputs
I for one can not even begin to pretend I have complete knowledge of plant-soil-microbe-environment interactions, even with my educational background, no one in their right mind would. On the other hand, it would appear JD does have this knowledge that no one else possesses and fully understands all of these complex interactions .... pretty damned amazing.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:25 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Howard County MD
Posts: 4,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Or read studies posted.



I for one can not even begin to pretend I have complete knowledge of plant-soil-microbe-environment interactions, even with my educational background, no one in their right mind would. On the other hand, it would appear JD does have this knowledge that no one else possesses and fully understands all of these complex interactions .... pretty damned amazing.
Its hard to be specific with such a complicated subject, there are WAY too many variables, we can generalize and kind of get close
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fertilizer , organic , synthetic

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:17 PM.

Page generated in 0.12910 seconds with 10 queries