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  #21  
Old 03-04-2011, 10:54 PM
DaytonBioLawns DaytonBioLawns is offline
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Location: Centerville Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepin' It Green View Post
I have attached a .pdf that shows the guidelines of the contract in order to get 28% off. My dealer said that it is non monitored and usually have no problems receiving it if you are buying one mower. If you try to buy two mowers on one non-profit there is a good chance that you may be denied. So, it's pretty much one more for one non profit. Or if the non profit property is very large they are willing to provide the discount for more equipment. Hope this helps. I know Scag offers this same program but it is only 20% off instead of 28%.
Just be careful with that. If you give your tax ID for a for-profit legal entity and represent it as a non-profit entity, that makes you guilty of fraud.

you could be found guilty of....
-fraud
-embezzlement
-tax fraud
and theft/grand theft

As a retailer the various U.S. Government agencies/departments have audit requirements. Most (like the IRS), require that you randomly audit and check your programs on receipt.....

So they could take lets say.... 50,000 non-profit claims on the mowers and sell them @ your 28% off. Toro would be getting a tax break from the government for offering and reporting on the non-profit program. They are required to audit that program if they get that tax program and receive money back from it. So they audit X% of it.... lets say 25%..... Well your number comes up. They run the Federal I.D. # that you filed saying whether or not you can draw a profit from your organization. If they find you are a for-profit entity, you are already guilty of fraud.....

Result: The U.S. Government or other parties that you defrauded could take you to court in both criminal and civil cases. Double whammy. If you created a non-profit to buy mowers and equipment and used them in a for-profit business you are in more trouble....a lot more. If you did something that traces back to you personally, your LLC or other legal entity is useless and the parties could take... get this...

EVERYTHING.

I'm not trying to hate on anyone I just don't want any of you to unknowingly get in trouble. Cause that kind of trouble is serious trouble. You could go to jail, get probation or parole, and pay restitution. Your wages could be garnished and your bank accounts handed over and emptied. If you used a personal line of credit like a credit card, or a loan that you personally guaranteed, then you are open game. Your legal entity no longer separates you from the risks of business and business crime. They could take everything including your house, car, spouses assets, and dependent children's funds and assets as well. Your child could lose his college savings because of this.

Don't do it. It isn't worth the extra 8-10% that you save. There are retail programs open to everyone like buyer's groups, fleet buying, buying on credit/financing, mail-in-rebates, coupons, and much more. Many of them can be used in conjunction with each other.

Cars, trucks, and large equipment usually can be negotiated 18% at the dealer plus manufacturer rebates. They are out there too! Wright Stander has a published list of seasonal buying prices going all the way to 17%.....needless to say you can also negotiate your rates. If you are a savvy buyer you can get equipment around 25-30% off.... IN A LEGAL WAY!!!!

Don't even do it if the dealer says its okay. Cause then you are guilty and he is your inside partner. You would have then also been charged with conspiracy to commit fraud as well.

I'm not trying to bust balls here. I'm trying to save your neck!!!
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2011, 11:11 PM
eco.lawns's Avatar
eco.lawns eco.lawns is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Springboro, OH
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonBioLawns View Post
Just be careful with that. If you give your tax ID for a for-profit legal entity and represent it as a non-profit entity, that makes you guilty of fraud.

you could be found guilty of....
-fraud
-embezzlement
-tax fraud
and theft/grand theft

As a retailer the various U.S. Government agencies/departments have audit requirements. Most (like the IRS), require that you randomly audit and check your programs on receipt.....

So they could take lets say.... 50,000 non-profit claims on the mowers and sell them @ your 28% off. Toro would be getting a tax break from the government for offering and reporting on the non-profit program. They are required to audit that program if they get that tax program and receive money back from it. So they audit X% of it.... lets say 25%..... Well your number comes up. They run the Federal I.D. # that you filed saying whether or not you can draw a profit from your organization. If they find you are a for-profit entity, you are already guilty of fraud.....

Result: The U.S. Government or other parties that you defrauded could take you to court in both criminal and civil cases. Double whammy. If you created a non-profit to buy mowers and equipment and used them in a for-profit business you are in more trouble....a lot more. If you did something that traces back to you personally, your LLC or other legal entity is useless and the parties could take... get this...

EVERYTHING.

I'm not trying to hate on anyone I just don't want any of you to unknowingly get in trouble. Cause that kind of trouble is serious trouble. You could go to jail, get probation or parole, and pay restitution. Your wages could be garnished and your bank accounts handed over and emptied. If you used a personal line of credit like a credit card, or a loan that you personally guaranteed, then you are open game. Your legal entity no longer separates you from the risks of business and business crime. They could take everything including your house, car, spouses assets, and dependent children's funds and assets as well. Your child could lose his college savings because of this.

Don't do it. It isn't worth the extra 8-10% that you save. There are retail programs open to everyone like buyer's groups, fleet buying, buying on credit/financing, mail-in-rebates, coupons, and much more. Many of them can be used in conjunction with each other.

Cars, trucks, and large equipment usually can be negotiated 18% at the dealer plus manufacturer rebates. They are out there too! Wright Stander has a published list of seasonal buying prices going all the way to 17%.....needless to say you can also negotiate your rates. If you are a savvy buyer you can get equipment around 25-30% off.... IN A LEGAL WAY!!!!

Don't even do it if the dealer says its okay. Cause then you are guilty and he is your inside partner. You would have then also been charged with conspiracy to commit fraud as well.

I'm not trying to bust balls here. I'm trying to save your neck!!!
No one said anything about doing anything illegal. You must mow for a NON-PROFIT to get the discount and the program is actually called bid assist. It was never even suggested to use anything other than that. Their is absolutely no reason anyone shouldn't take advantage of this discount if they qualify. I just saved over $2,400 on a brand new GS 52/24
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EcoLawn & Landscaping, LLC
'08 Chevy 2500HD
16ft tandem axle
2010 Toro Grandstand 52/24
2005 Dixie chopper SE 44/27
2009 Kubota BX 25
FS 90r (2)
BR 380
BR 600
HS 45
MS 290

www.EcoLawnOhio.com

Pics: http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=353845
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  #23  
Old 03-05-2011, 12:55 AM
Keepin' It Green's Avatar
Keepin' It Green Keepin' It Green is offline
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Location: Springboro, OH
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Also, you do not even have to be a business owner or have a federal tax id number. You only have to provide the tax id number for the non profit that you are mowing for.
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  #24  
Old 03-05-2011, 02:32 AM
DaytonBioLawns DaytonBioLawns is offline
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Location: Centerville Ohio
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepin' It Green View Post
Also, you do not even have to be a business owner or have a federal tax id number. You only have to provide the tax id number for the non profit that you are mowing for.
Yes it is all true. A non-profit can be used by basically anyone. Just get the tax ID. There is a paper for release of use. We deal with them on all corporate purchases. Same piece of paper but the I.D. comes back non-profit instead of profit.

BUT if they find out that a non-profit provided it to you for any other reason than mowing for the non-profit you WILL get in trouble....

That is what I'm trying to say. If you mow your church or whatever NPO in area that is okay to use the form. If you own a landscape business and do not service an NPO then don't do it. It isn't worth the trouble it will cause.

even if it doesn't sound that serious this can be a big fat red mark on your record.

again if you service a non-profit then you are okay. no problem.... this program would be for you.
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  #25  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:43 AM
Dabtro96's Avatar
Dabtro96 Dabtro96 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 9
The dealer I was talking to didn't participate in the NP pricing program but the Toro rep was there and said he could get it through to Toro corporate. He also said that the piece of equipment being purchased had to match the size of the NP account. So a 4000sq ft lot wouldn't justify a 60' mower. He also mentioned that the mower had to be used 'exclusively' for that account but quickly followed by saying that it's nearly impossible to enforce.
Regarding the equipment:
He told me Toro spindles are far superior to Exmark and the Turbo Force deck is better than the deck on the Exmark. (Grandstand vs. Vantage) A little Toro rep talk there and I'm guessing some truth too. I don't know.
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  #26  
Old 03-05-2011, 11:57 AM
eco.lawns's Avatar
eco.lawns eco.lawns is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Springboro, OH
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonBioLawns View Post
Yes it is all true. A non-profit can be used by basically anyone. Just get the tax ID. There is a paper for release of use. We deal with them on all corporate purchases. Same piece of paper but the I.D. comes back non-profit instead of profit.

BUT if they find out that a non-profit provided it to you for any other reason than mowing for the non-profit you WILL get in trouble....

That is what I'm trying to say. If you mow your church or whatever NPO in area that is okay to use the form. If you own a landscape business and do not service an NPO then don't do it. It isn't worth the trouble it will cause.

even if it doesn't sound that serious this can be a big fat red mark on your record.

again if you service a non-profit then you are okay. no problem.... this program would be for you.

This is solid advise

As far as toro vs. exmark goes Im sure you cant go wrong with either machine. Demo both and choose the one that fits you and your wallet best
__________________
EcoLawn & Landscaping, LLC
'08 Chevy 2500HD
16ft tandem axle
2010 Toro Grandstand 52/24
2005 Dixie chopper SE 44/27
2009 Kubota BX 25
FS 90r (2)
BR 380
BR 600
HS 45
MS 290

www.EcoLawnOhio.com

Pics: http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=353845
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  #27  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:13 PM
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Dabtro96 Dabtro96 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 9
Well I demoed both the Toro and the Exmark. Both of them had tracking problems. Not a major issue but neither went straight. So, since it was sitting there, I demoed a Scag Vride, WOW! That's a nice machine. I didn't cut grass with any of these machines, but the Scag felt much nicer from a controllability standpoint. More comfortable too. More money though.
This mower shopping is tough!
Most of my equipment is Exmark and Toro (several WB's and smaller 21" mowers). I haven't run any Scag equipment so I don't know much about them. I imagine they make good equipment.
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