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  #11  
Old 03-20-2011, 12:22 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
He isn't asking which one to do so much as how to market the compost vs the multi app "program"...
I thouht he was asking, why we don't discuss organic fertilizers on this forum...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
As you guys know... I myself blend the two by applying tiny amounts of compost in a 5 to 6 app "program"...
Hahaha, that's what's known as 'milking it'...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2011, 12:47 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unit28 View Post
is promoting soil activity

sustainable soil activity to be more specific

speaking of clippings c2weech check this article

http://www.mtgf.org/Clippings-S10.pdf

scroll down to micro-organisms and plant growth.
Hope this helps in marketing info.
Hey, great website... I particularily like this section:

"Nov. For the 2.0 lb N Sept. application, an average of 75% of fertilizer
was taken up compared to 48% and 25% in Oct. and Nov.
(Fig 1 and 2).
Recommendations: Because these results suggest that N
uptake declines substantially as temperatures decrease, fertilizer
recommendations should be decreased to match N uptake capacity.
In other words, if you apply late fall N, do so at a reduced
rate, 0.25-0.5 lb N and know that not all the fertilizer will be
taken up by the plant. On high sand content soils, these rates
should be further reduced to decrease leaching."***

Here in the Midwest, I belive that the winterizer should be put down in Sept. to allow the plant to store as much energy for the winter as possible, and this article seems to suport that notion...
It also links uptake to temperature, so the same would apply to springtime applications... By the time the winter storge carbs are used up it should be warm enough to utilize N efficiantly and get it going for the season...
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*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Getting back to the original reason for Unit28's post, I agree, this pretty much say it all...
"1) Maintaining the "tilth" or granular
structure of the soil which influences
water infiltration, air and water retention
and root penetration,
2) Providing a source of mineral elements
such as phosphorus, sulfur, and
essentially, along with microorganisms,the only non-applied source of nitrogen,
and
3) Providing the main source of energy
for soil micro-organisms, without which
soil biochemical activity would come to a
standstill."
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:39 PM
c2weech c2weech is offline
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Originally Posted by ParadiseLS View Post
i don't really think tukey's organic lawn care manual is all that great. i have it, i would recommend it to others, but i would recommend supplementary reading like "Teaming With Microbes", and for really serious people, more advanced soil biology books.

Forgot to mention I do have and have read "Teaming with Microbes" I like it for its depth and detail however I like Tukey's for Comprehensiveness
i agree that selling people on fertilization is a lot easier than selling them on building up their OM and teaming with microbes, so to say......unfortunately, companies are going to have to lead the way in organic lawn care and it is going to be tough for the trailblazers because there will be a smaller return on advertising dollars, and offering comprehensive programs is more trouble than just scheduling bi-monthly fert. apps. and on top of that, once it becomes popular enough, and once the other companies have seen your ads enough times and spotted your trucks and noticed that you're keeping busy, they are going to jump on your bandwagon and breeze into these new services.

on the other hand, i always try to offer the best service i know how to my customers. if they insist on not taking it, i let them just get their basic bi-monthly fert. but i really don't want to sell myself as an "organic lawn care pro" and offer them just the basics, because when the day comes that they start hearing about the newest craze in lawn care: compost tea", i want them to think, "hey, my guy has been telling me about that stuff for years, i guess i should finally listen to him". just because it won't help you expand your business when you're far ahead of the curve now, it might help you sustain a lot of business down the line when comprehensive organic programs hit the mainstream more, and it will reinforce the trust and respect your customers have for your expertise.
I like this point you make also as far as being ahead of the curve. I see from your location you are in Ontario. I have watched the movie"A Chemical Reaction" in my research which focuses on Ontario's banning of Synthetics. From the movie it makes it seem like all of Ontario now uses compost (or at least this is what I assumed)

My question to you is this true or do many in the province use organic fertilizers now?


And now a question to all Does this sound like an accurate distinction between the two Oncanic/Natural Fertz may be natural but the lawn is dependent still on the Ferts while maybe Compost Organics promotes an Organic and probably more importantly Sustainable Lawn?


Also do you guys think that the ferts. can really be called organic?
thanks again to all the feedback thus far
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:39 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I thouht he was asking, why we don't discuss organic fertilizers on this forum...
Actually he was asking both...

Quote:
Originally Posted by c2weech View Post
...the question I have come up with is how do you sell customers on Compost, overseeding, compost tea. vs Organic fertilizer that the big boys offer TrueGreen and Natural Way Lawn around me.

...

Also just curious why organic fertilizers are not really discussed in this forum
As far as why we don't discuss organic ferts here... the conversation almost always turns into an un-pleasant argument about sustainability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Hahaha, that's what's known as 'milking it'...
I don't see how this is milking it... please explain?
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:01 PM
c2weech c2weech is offline
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I guess that I am asking why you guys do not talk about organic ferts. is it because you don't believe that it is truly "Organic lawn care" and if you don't believe it is tell me why?

Explain to me as if I was a customer I suppose.

If I am a customer asking, "Why would I need to put compost and compost tea on my yard when TrueGreen offers Natural Lawn applications which are all natural organic fertilizers ?"



Thanks

I am enjoying reading the responses
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:20 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c2weech View Post
I guess that I am asking why you guys do not talk about organic ferts. is it because you don't believe that it is truly "Organic lawn care" and if you don't believe it is tell me why?

Explain to me as if I was a customer I suppose.

If I am a customer asking, "Why would I need to put compost and compost tea on my yard when TrueGreen offers Natural Lawn applications which are all natural organic fertilizers ?"



Thanks

I am enjoying reading the responses
My response would be...

"Truegreen wants to dust your lawn 5 times through the season with meals derived from bone, dried blood, feathers, corn, etc. While these sources provide nutrients they can attract other pests like rodents, birds, etc. Also, depending on the meal that they use they may not be sustainable. For instance, corn meal is probably produced from corn grown with chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Not to mention that corn is a food source and me using it on your lawn can drive the price of food up.

Other organic companies want to sell you a large compost topdressing once or twice a year followed up by various 'compost tea' applications. The initial price is significant, and in my experience there are better ways to provide nutrients and weed and pest control through the season.

My program uses a locally produced compost that comes from yard waste. I apply it evenly throughout the year. This way you get the normal visit to your property which can include weed, disease, and insect control, all while providing an even application of nutrients. Now you have an organic solution available that not only feeds your soil and your grass the right way, it acts and feels just like the program that you are used to having. You do not need to front large amounts of money for compost topdressings with my program, but you can rest assured that your lawn will be green and beautiful while protecting you, your family, and mother earth."

My .02
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:41 PM
c2weech c2weech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
My response would be...

"Truegreen wants to dust your lawn 5 times through the season with meals derived from bone, dried blood, feathers, corn, etc. While these sources provide nutrients they can attract other pests like rodents, birds, etc. Also, depending on the meal that they use they may not be sustainable. For instance, corn meal is probably produced from corn grown with chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Not to mention that corn is a food source and me using it on your lawn can drive the price of food up.

Other organic companies want to sell you a large compost topdressing once or twice a year followed up by various 'compost tea' applications. The initial price is significant, and in my experience there are better ways to provide nutrients and weed and pest control through the season.

My program uses a locally produced compost that comes from yard waste.

Ok this brings up another good question I have for you guys because I have located a great local compost source but I got to thinking and How can we justify the compost as organic when the compost is from yard waste which includes chemically treated lawnclippings and tree and shrub clippings that have been chemically sprayed??

I apply it evenly throughout the year. This way you get the normal visit to your property which can include weed, disease, and insect control, all while providing an even application of nutrients. Now you have an organic solution available that not only feeds your soil and your grass the right way, it acts and feels just like the program that you are used to having. You do not need to front large amounts of money for compost topdressings with my program, but you can rest assured that your lawn will be green and beautiful while protecting you, your family, and mother earth."

My .02
Also do you not topdress? Only spray compost tea? It is unclear from your response above
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:56 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
As far as why we don't discuss organic ferts here... the conversation almost always turns into an un-pleasant argument about sustainability.
Sustainable solutions is what "organics" is all about .... and any argument to the contrary is nothing short of absurd.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2011, 04:01 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Sustainable solutions is what "organics" is all about .... and any argument to the contrary is nothing short of absurd.
I agree completely. That is why I choose not to use meals myself.
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