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  #11  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:24 PM
OrganicsMaine OrganicsMaine is offline
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Well Hay, I had originally asked to see what program you were using to do your work. Guess I won't get that. My programs range from a "bridge" program to a full organic program. Do I tell my customers that their lawn will not have any weeds? No. Would I tell them that their lawn won't have any weeds if I was synthetically treating them? No. In fact, with a summer like this one, there are very few lawns in my area that have come through unscathed. Crabgrass abounds everywhere, and for the non irrigated lawns, they are going to require some major renovations.

To be honest, my programs are based on my customer's wants and needs. If they have a low/no weed tolerance, then it is always a bridge program, and I am honest with them about it. However, I can say that I have used Cedar Cure from ICT (Via Tech Terra), and it has worked well on the grubs.

I work hard to educate my customers and explain to them what will need to be done in order to go organic. I also tell them what their responsibilities are, and what they should expect from either of my programs. If I start with bridge, then it is done with the goal of getting them over to a fully organic program in time. If it is organic that they want, then we go all out for that.

So, no, you don't need to call BS, because I don't have a silverbullet for you. But for you to say that organics just don't work, I have to call BS, because it is working for me.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2011, 12:15 AM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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We dont have that option. Its either Organic now or Organic now. No Weening them off of pesticides and then when they start complaining give them a quick app of 2,4-D

Your customers will not be as tolerant as you say, unless you only have 1.

Educate is what the Ontario government and activists say over and over, do you think customers really listen, give me a break on that one.



Ontario residents are now going to the USA to buy their pesticides and applying it themselves.

But I am glad you were honest. I was expecting a different answer.

I posted a link to Tendershoots in another thread, they were organic with Compost type slurry setup, a first in Ontario since the ban. Guess what they are offering now, FIESTA. (a crappy alternative pesticide just to barely meet customer expectations if they use the product off label)

Just out of curiosity what percentage of your customer base is 100% Organic

Last edited by HayBay; 08-22-2011 at 12:22 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2011, 12:42 AM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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I also wanted to bring up Total Vegetation Management for anyone interested.

You know, killing all weeds and grasses on patios, gravel driveways, bike paths etc.... ON A LARGE SCALE.

How do you do this organically (safely) as opposed to (dangerous) RoundUP and without revisiting the job site every 2 weeks for the whole season.

I could go on about the major failures associated with steam, ammonium soaps of fatty acids, acetic acid, flames, goats.... (non systemic properties, regrowth, cost)

But there is probably a way to make a healthier gravel to resist weeds I bet.
Microbial activity of the rocks.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:57 AM
replenish&subdue replenish&subdue is offline
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I am also a NOFA graduate and while there asked Chip Osborne while in class to tell me how pre-emergents hurt people,pets or the environment. He couldn't answer it and slipped to talking about 2-4D which is a post emerge. I have asked the same question on this forum I would think because I ask all the organic heads I can.
But I would say don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I will be going on my 4 th year without synthetic fertilizers or chemicals on my lawn & shrubs,even no pre-emerges and my T-10 bermuda,meyers,palisade and calvalier zoysias and tall fescue are top notch. (That's right have all the above turf types). For pre-emerge I use corn glutton. My mistake is I used the new liquid last year and 92 yr.old granny had to pick some crabgrass. I always have crabgrass but less each year with the exception of using the liquid.I would stick with the granular. I use cotton burr compost spread with the Earth & Turf Sp 100 which by the way is so much better than the other "top selling" blue machine. My Sp 100 spreads easily cotton burr which is at least 30 % moisture content. I have a number of other organic/natural products I use.
Conclusion : organic is not practical for business because corn glutton is too expensive and has too many requirements to make it work effectively such as timing,watering.
Chemicals are not something to be dispised when properly applied. The EPA makes sure they are safe enough for the public if rightly applied. I think it is incredible that weeds can be ridden and not hurt the grass. What a business. Go ahead and fight with organics. Because of the curse man will always be sweating to deal with weeds.

Last edited by replenish&subdue; 11-03-2011 at 10:03 AM.
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  #15  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:38 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Organic is about growing things, not ,killing things.... Environments that CG proliferate simply means that the environment for turf is not properly cared for...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*

Last edited by Smallaxe; 11-03-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
I am also a NOFA graduate and while there asked Chip Osborne while in class to tell me how pre-emergents hurt people,pets or the environment. He couldn't answer it and slipped to talking about 2-4D which is a post emerge. I have asked the same question on this forum I would think because I ask all the organic heads I can.
Here are a few.

Siduron: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...rm+@DOCNO+1764

Dicamba: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...erm+@DOCNO+311

Isoxaben: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...rm+@DOCNO+6691

Benfluralin: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...erm+@DOCNO+407

Trifluralin: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...rm+@DOCNO+1003
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:42 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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Here is some more:

Aspirin: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...rm+@DOCNO+3001

Table Salt: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...rm+@DOCNO+6368

Vinegar: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...term+@DOCNO+40

The Ontario Farmer Papers mentioned in the Dicamba Link in the above post involved Dr. Tye Arbuckle, I doubt you will find her talking crap about pesticide dangers.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2011, 11:52 AM
replenish&subdue replenish&subdue is offline
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Haybay and Kiril need to get their facts accurate. I never said that some post emerges are not dangerous in some way but show me a pre-emerge (like prodiamine) that hurts people,plants or environment. I have natural products that kill broadleaves but no natural or organic product that successfully prevents grassy weeds. Corn glutton is not practical to use when treating residential in a business. This is due to timing,two or three years to have adequate control and cost.
Should be more open to some chemicals used on lawns that pose no threat to health any more (or less) than head & shoulders.
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:31 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
Haybay and Kiril need to get their facts accurate. I never said that some post emerges are not dangerous in some way but show me a pre-emerge (like prodiamine) that hurts people,plants or environment.
I posted links to 5 pre-emergents. Did you read them or do I need to copy and paste?
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:39 PM
replenish&subdue replenish&subdue is offline
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Only post pre-emerges.Thanks
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