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  #21  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:01 AM
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I see the lightbulb finally came on. I didn't even think about the weight of the water helping displace any underliner water.

The house is a good 100-150 feet from the pond.

Tad, do you think I should cover the liner with a soil or gravel?
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STL Ponds and Waterfalls View Post
I see the lightbulb finally came on. I didn't even think about the weight of the water helping displace any underliner water.

The house is a good 100-150 feet from the pond.

Tad, do you think I should cover the liner with a soil or gravel?
I am assuming that this pond is at least 2 years old.

This is the plan that I would follow:

1. The obvious draining and temporary housing of the fish.

2. After pond is drained, I would remove, at least, the top 6-8 inches of soil/muck from the existing bottom and save.

3. Make any desired modifications to pond depth, shape or form (shelves, shallow areas for planting, etc.).

4. Install underlayment (Yea, I would use underlayment) and liner.

5. Backfill with previously saved soil/muck spread evenly.

6. Refill pond. Allow to sit for at least 2 -3 days before re-introducing the fish.

7. Encourage the HO to add some aquatic plantings.

The main item here is reusing the existing Benthic layer which is already populated with the bacteria and other benthic micro- and macro-organisms to establish the Nitrogen cycle and Food chain/web. Although some organism mortality is unavoidable, recolonization will be rapid due to the presence of eggs, spores, cysts, etc.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2012, 01:04 PM
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The pond has some plants, but the only one I could see was cattails. I'm working on upgrading with some boulders, plants, and AERATION. It's a hard sell as the owner doesn't care for the fancy stuff I suggested. lol! He just wants a leak free pond. If he likes my work and pricing he'll think about the fancy items.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:23 PM
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Might want to eliminate the cattails, they are aggressively invasive. Replace them with a nice variegated reed or rush.
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2012, 03:29 PM
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Might want to eliminate the cattails, they are aggressively invasive. Replace them with a nice variegated reed or rush.
Your absolutely right! I hate cattails with a passion maintenance wise. Maybe I'll load it up with cattails, lotus, and parrots feather. JK for new pond builders reading this.
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2012, 03:41 PM
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Yea, one has to be careful what they post 'cause some people believe EVERYTHING that they read on-line.
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2012, 01:26 AM
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Wow.....i wish i had been here on the start of this thread. I have installed multiple liners into earthen ponds. It is actually pretty simple AFTER you have installed a few. I will try and give my input that i have learned on my own along with advice i have received from the pros. I will also post pics tmrw since i have just now came across this at 12:15 am.


First i will start with drainage.......They actaully make a venting system for this http://stoneycreekequip.com/form/multivent.htm . This is what i use under all my large ponds. There are multiple ways of using this vent too.

I would highly suggest using this not only for water shed going under liner but if u use the existing soil back in the bottom of the pond(under the liner) u will surely have a gas build up from all the decaying sludge and debris. We actually tore out about a 1/4 acre pond where the last installer didn't drain out all the water, sludge and debris out of the pond (which had a liner) and put a new liner over top of the old liner, sludge and debris....well a few weeks later he had what we call whales(this is where it looks like the back of a whale at the surface of the water). If the liner bubble/whale is flush with the water surface it is usually water under the liner but if the bubble/whale exceeds above the water surface it is usually gases.

Second i would definetly use underlayment. If it is a really large pond (like the 1 acre i did 2 yrs ago) u might be concerned about keeping the underlayment from blowing around. Well theres a trick to that also. We take a small propane torch and heat one edge of the fabric while another person simply layes it back down on the adjoining peice beside it. Instantly bonds together. Then i use biodegradable plastic like stakes to pin it down. I worry if u use metal stakes after time the would rust maybe causing a sharp edge. I am referring not to use the ones used to hold landscape fabric down. Kinda like a u shape.

Third using a liner can cause problems for the owner in certain situations(which can be overcome). For instance if u are installing a pond where deer, cows or large animals will be drinking from it, u want to design a ballast around the edges, in my opinion. As time goes by guess what starts forming on the liner......an ecosystem. I know u already knew that sorry. Well this will cause the liner to be slick, so if a large animal goes for a swim or falls in and tries to get out (of course this does depend on the steepness of the pond walls) they are more likely to be thrashing their feet to gain their footing. Also we have installed a ballast for a cemetary pond due to the fact if a child fell in they would have a way to get out. I have seen some people just put rock around the edge..........nope not for me. Once again depending on steepness of pond wall, the rock will end up in the bottom of the pond. We were taught a simple yet effective way to stop the rock slide. My pics will show this design.

Fourth definetly dig an anchor trench around the pond for the liner. If conditions are good u can use a walk behind/ride on trencher. Make sure to at least get 6"-8" wide. Or to be safe 1'-2' for larger application ponds.

Now as far as liners. There are 3 liners i will use on large ponds. Depending on size this will mean seaming or welding liner panels together. EPDM, Aquaweave and Easyweave are the ones i use.

I have never used a pressure relief valve for water and gas under liner. I have always worried what if a peice of rock or dirt clod caused it to stick open. I might be over thinking it. IDK

Well hopefully this is a start and will help u. STL u can call me anytime with questions. U know typing it and speaking it are two different things....i hate typing!!!!!!!
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2012, 09:37 AM
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Yeah I'd like to see those pictures. I'm still trying to get a game plan to present to the customer. My one biggest holdup is storing the existing soil/muck than actually putting it back on the liner. You can't use any machinary, so the majority will have to be done by hand. So that really jumps the labor rate up. Than again my excavator's boom will get out to the 12-14 foot mark so that will help a little.

Than I'll need a one piece liner. I will not do a project if it has to be seemed. I just don't trust the seeming. It might last 2 months, 2 years, or 20 years, but it is a potential headache for leaks.

That's a pretty good idea for the underlayment. No I wouldn't use 'Sod Staples" for the reason you mentioneed.

What rock are you talking about? Gravel or boulders? I was going to talk to the owner about lining the pond with boulders to keep deer and such out. He has a few labs so I won't be able to keep them out.
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2012, 10:21 AM
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Keith- Beings that this project is still in the prelim stage, I would post this same question on the Pond Boss Forum - http://forums.pondboss.com/. I think you will find that you will get an answer similar to mine.
Although Larry is correct that a biofilm will form on the liner if left exposed to just the pond water, this will in no way come close to duplicating the existing benthic layer that can be reused. A biofilm is just that and does not provide a habitat for micro- and macro-invertebrates (annelids, arthropods, insect larvae etc.) that a true benthic layer will. These organisms are all an integral part of the food web and carbon cycle. Even on new earthen pond contruction where a liner is required because of existing soil conditions, a layer of soil over the liner is recommended. The fact that you will have this substrate already available, it seems foolish and counterproductive not to reuse it.
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  #30  
Old 02-13-2012, 10:48 AM
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Tad I'll definately use it for the exact reasons you mentioned and so I don't have to dispose of the soil. Like I stated above the headache is stockpiling it and getting it back in place over the liner in a quick manner. That will be a few buckets of soil to remove and replace when the liner is down. I've been dragging my feet because I don't think the money is wanting to be spent on the proper way to do this. Although it is a good learning experience for me.
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