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  #1  
Old 02-19-2012, 12:11 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Thatch and the Pine Forest

I often dig into the soil where ever I am able to, just to see what I can learn... therefore it is not surprising that another thread, got me thinking about ways in which we could 'visulize' the thatch in our turf, by comparison with the 'floor' of a pine forest.

What is interesting about the 'organic' decay in an undisturbed environment, is the sequential layers one finds, as you dig into the rootzones...

On the surface of the forest floor you have lots of fresh pine needles covering the ground in a carpetlike fashion with very little other growth becoming a problem.

Underneath the surface there is a layer of blackened rotted needles that hold a great deal of moisture.

Dig a little deeper and you can 'feel' the consistancy of OM mixed with the top layer of soil... with worms and everything else living there in the 'rhizosphere', or root zone.

How does that compare(or contrast) to the layer of thatch in the turf?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:10 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
... How does that compare(or contrast) to the layer of thatch in the turf?
The thatch would have exactly the same 3 layers of decay and provide the very same benefits as the needles for the trees.
That layer under the new needles, often times has roots from the pine tree growing 'up' into it.

What happens to the forest floor, if we go in and strip away all the pine needles? Down to the dirt?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2012, 08:31 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
... What happens to the forest floor, if we go in and strip away all the pine needles? Down to the dirt?
Answer:

The surface roots of the tree die. The ground becomes barren and dusty, even hydrophobic is some instances.
And that is the same issue with thatch in the turf, because it serves the same functions as mulch does for shrubs and flowers.
It eliminates bad things like wild temperature swings, wild moisture swings, wind and water erosion, ect...
It promotes some good things like building soil structure at least at the contact point, allows the water to slow and soak, eventually increasing perculation, food and shelter for earthworms, etc., etc...

My question is:
Why doesn't the organic forum have any clue to what I'm talking about? Mechanical dethatching is organic?

I don't know the best way to do Southern grasses, but somebody in the South must have done something organically and would have an understanding, even if just an experience to pass along...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2012, 11:58 AM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Answer:

The surface roots of the tree die. The ground becomes barren and dusty, even hydrophobic is some instances.
And that is the same issue with thatch in the turf, because it serves the same functions as mulch does for shrubs and flowers.
It eliminates bad things like wild temperature swings, wild moisture swings, wind and water erosion, ect...
It promotes some good things like building soil structure at least at the contact point, allows the water to slow and soak, eventually increasing perculation, food and shelter for earthworms, etc., etc...

My question is:
Why doesn't the organic forum have any clue to what I'm talking about? Mechanical dethatching is organic?

I don't know the best way to do Southern grasses, but somebody in the South must have done something organically and would have an understanding, even if just an experience to pass along...
Maybe they are all using Lolium perenne.

Food for the soil food web is GOOD.
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  #5  
Old 02-23-2012, 10:23 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by heritage View Post
Maybe they are all using Lolium perenne.

Food for the soil food web is GOOD.
Even if it is Lolium perenne, I believe that a good cover of some type of decaying mulch-like material is critical to the Soil Food Web, for that specie as well...

Would you concur???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2012, 11:02 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Even if it is Lolium perenne, I believe that a good cover of some type of decaying mulch-like material is critical to the Soil Food Web, for that specie as well...

Would you concur???
Yes I do Smallaxe.

Besides clipping return, and some short chain Carbon (Sugars) what else could be added as a Liquid to keep the OM up enough to feed the Herd? 2 gal/1K. (hose).
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:14 AM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Fish Hydrolysate, liquid kelp, liquid humate.
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Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:11 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Fish Hydrolysate, liquid kelp, liquid humate.
Hi Barry,

Any other products available?

The Fish always brought with it great results BUT too many comments from the scent.

Kelp no issues with smell and the bioavailability is good.

Earthworks "Kick" has me covered on the Sugars and Humates.

Any other Options?

Sugar Beet Extracts?????
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:22 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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sent you PM.
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The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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