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Old 04-16-2012, 12:20 AM
TooMuchClay TooMuchClay is offline
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Best surface feeding I/C? Is Merit(Imidicloprid) killing bees?

I have not been heavily into the lawn service aspect of property management for over 12 years. I do a little, but I avoid applying insect controls or much pesticides. But I worked at Lawn Doctor for 7 years, and I've applied many, many tons of lawn pesticides. I figured it out recently, and I've done somewhere around 15,000 separate lawn applications in those 7 years.

We used to use Dursban(Chlopyrifos) for surface feeding insect control, Oftanol for preventative grub control(then Merit in the mid 90's), and originally Triumph for curative grub control(til it was banned), then Sevimol(Sevin + Molasses! LOL!), then Dylox.

But after I left, they banned Dursban for lawns, as well as Diazinon as I remember. So to replace them, they introduced Pyrethrin, Permethrin, Cyalofluthrin(spelling?), Gamma Beta something or other, and lots of other insect controls. There always seems to be something new on the labels of insect controls at Lowes!

But I tried using Spectracide's Triazicide last year for Aphids on peppers, but it didnt do squat! It was absolutely pathetic. But....it was also the nastiest stuff I've ever applied! I was doing it outside, and it was burning my throat and nasal passages like friggin' mustard gas! So it will obviously control humans, just not insects! So they banned the effective insect controls and replaced them with ineffective ones that seem more dangerous to humans...Great!

I had a customer last year who applied grub preventative in June(Merit), but then had grub damage in September!

But I was also listening to NPR recently, and the host said that tests are showing that Merit(imidicloprid) may be causing the honey bee decline by weakening them and making them more susceptible to the diseases killing them! Its also used for lots of other types of I/C.

So what 'new' insect controls actually work without killing the applicator? Have you heard about the bee issues with Merit?
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TooMuchClay View Post

But I was also listening to NPR recently, and the host said that tests are showing that Merit(imidicloprid) may be causing the honey bee decline by weakening them and making them more susceptible to the diseases killing them! Its also used for lots of other types of I/C.

So what 'new' insect controls actually work without killing the applicator? Have you heard about the bee issues with Merit?
Funny, 100 hits on this topic & nobody wants to talk about this?

Last month I attended a meeting where one of the speakers owns a large scale beekeeping operation. He sends semi-loads of bee colonies around the nation to pollinate crops. The amount of bee death is staggering. Nobody knows for sure what is causing colony collapse disorder, but more studies are pointing to imadacloprid.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0405224653.htm

At some point we need to understand that our food supply is more important than killing grubs.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:37 AM
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On the other side of the coin, as a Full service Pest Control Company I get calls to Kill Feral Bees. They are by far one of the hardest insects to get a fast kill on. The trick is to treat them and then wait 24 hrs.

However unless the honey is removed, the Hive will attract other Feral Bees who re-colonizes the hive. The thief of insecticided honey by one colony from an other in this case could be one of the problems of Bee decline.



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Old 04-16-2012, 10:51 AM
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On the other side of the coin, as a Full service Pest Control Company I get calls to Kill Feral Bees. They are by far one of the hardest insects to get a fast kill on. The trick is to treat them and then wait 24 hrs.

However unless the honey is removed, the Hive will attract other Feral Bees who re-colonizes the hive. The thief of insecticided honey by one colony from an other in this case could be one of the problems of Bee decline.
You are correct that there are several factors involved.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:19 PM
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You are correct that there are several factors involved.
At present time Dr William Kern of the U of F research center in Ft Lauderdale recommends euthanizing all Feral Bee colonies to help stop the spread of Bee Decline.

Part of the problem is Bee Keeper move the hives from crop to crop all over the state. I forget now but I think Bakers Honey comes from Palmetto palms a certain time of the year while Orange Blossom Honey is early spring etc etc. I used to drink an occasional beer with a Retired Bee Keeper and wished I remembered more of what he said. But yes there are many factors

I have tried a number of Different insecticides trying to kill bees quickly. Imadacloprid works but is one of the slowest kill times I have seen. Of course it is also a very complete kill as are most slow acting insecticides in social insects. One of my problems will controlling Bees is I don't contact to remove the Honey. I refer a GC I know who can tear down and rebuild what ever need to done. The problem I face is talking people into paying to have the honey removed. Some get away with out doing it. Most end up with a bigger mess when our Florida sun melts the Bees wax and honey pours all over the place.


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Old 04-16-2012, 05:37 PM
agrostis agrostis is offline
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" The problem I face is talking people into paying to have the honey removed. Some get away with out doing it. Most end up with a bigger mess when our Florida sun melts the Bees wax and honey pours all over the place."


I'm sure that is a real problem for applicator's and homeowner's, but it made me laugh. I never thought of that.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:53 PM
TooMuchClay TooMuchClay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
At present time Dr William Kern of the U of F research center in Ft Lauderdale recommends euthanizing all Feral Bee colonies to help stop the spread of Bee Decline.

Part of the problem is Bee Keeper move the hives from crop to crop all over the state. I forget now but I think Bakers Honey comes from Palmetto palms a certain time of the year while Orange Blossom Honey is early spring etc etc. I used to drink an occasional beer with a Retired Bee Keeper and wished I remembered more of what he said. But yes there are many factors

I have tried a number of Different insecticides trying to kill bees quickly. Imadacloprid works but is one of the slowest kill times I have seen. Of course it is also a very complete kill as are most slow acting insecticides in social insects. One of my problems will controlling Bees is I don't contact to remove the Honey. I refer a GC I know who can tear down and rebuild what ever need to done. The problem I face is talking people into paying to have the honey removed. Some get away with out doing it. Most end up with a bigger mess when our Florida sun melts the Bees wax and honey pours all over the place.


.

This should probably be a different thread, but do you have a big problem with actual bees down there? Are you talking about mainly Africanized 'killer bees'?

The only actual bees we have up here are large Carpenter bees, and short fat bumblebees. I never have a problem with either. I've never been stung by a bumble bee, and only once by a carpenter bee. I spend a lot of time outside too!

I had an unspoken agreement with a carpenter bee couple living in my shed years ago. They pollinated my blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, plums, and peaches, and I let them live in the shed. But once I went to get something from under the shelf on the right side, and the 'guard bee' who always greets you when you open the shed door, suddenly stung me on the back of my neck and it was the most painful sting ever. I had assumed that our unspoken agreement included them not stinging me, but apparently not! But carpenter bees stinging people is rare.

The problems we have arent with bees, its with yellow jackets and hornets and rarely wasps. You walk too close to an underground yellow jacket nest and get stung, or find one under your roof, in your shed, etc. I get stung by yellow jackets each year more than once, but not by bees.

I dont know if we even have wild honey bees around here(?)

I have a "live and let live" attitude when it comes to bees, but not necessarily with yellow jackets. How big is the bee problem in your area, and are they really a problem, or are homeowners just too paranoid?
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:31 PM
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I have been told we have African Bees in my area but I have yet to run into them. I have the Bee suit and do Bee Control but not the Honey removal. BTW Fear of running into African Bees is why I am forever trying to find a quick knock down for Bees. Soapy water is about the best to quite them down but it doesn't control them. Just to the the East of my area is a very big Agriculture area. In fact that actual county has the Most acres of citrus of any county in Florida. Citrus needs the Bees to pollinate the flowers for fruit. There are several very large Bee operation in the area and Bees do swarm and escape captivity as a Propagation process. So yes we have a minor problem with bees. There are several Bee Removal specialist in my area but they charge a Arm and a Leg.


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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

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Old 04-16-2012, 11:57 PM
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Getting back to colony collapse disorder.....it's not that the bees are being killed by bring pesticides back to the hives. For some reason their just not coming back at all.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:08 AM
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Sounds like a ppe issue with you using the stuff from home depot.

As far as bee kills w i/c I suspect that is in theory. There are millions of DIY that dust their tomatoes, put down surface insect control all over their lawn and weeds. Surface insect control kills bees as well. What about all the hose end sprayers that are used to kill mosquitoes.

I have a commercial Cat47 in MA for mosquitoe and biting fly, I contacted the local bee keepers association and wanted to get a list of all members so I could call them to let them know what parts of towns we would be spaying. They told me no its a protected list. So with bees flying miles, I am sure I have killed plenty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMuchClay View Post
I have not been heavily into the lawn service aspect of property management for over 12 years. I do a little, but I avoid applying insect controls or much pesticides. But I worked at Lawn Doctor for 7 years, and I've applied many, many tons of lawn pesticides. I figured it out recently, and I've done somewhere around 15,000 separate lawn applications in those 7 years.

We used to use Dursban(Chlopyrifos) for surface feeding insect control, Oftanol for preventative grub control(then Merit in the mid 90's), and originally Triumph for curative grub control(til it was banned), then Sevimol(Sevin + Molasses! LOL!), then Dylox.

But after I left, they banned Dursban for lawns, as well as Diazinon as I remember. So to replace them, they introduced Pyrethrin, Permethrin, Cyalofluthrin(spelling?), Gamma Beta something or other, and lots of other insect controls. There always seems to be something new on the labels of insect controls at Lowes!

But I tried using Spectracide's Triazicide last year for Aphids on peppers, but it didnt do squat! It was absolutely pathetic. But....it was also the nastiest stuff I've ever applied! I was doing it outside, and it was burning my throat and nasal passages like friggin' mustard gas! So it will obviously control humans, just not insects! So they banned the effective insect controls and replaced them with ineffective ones that seem more dangerous to humans...Great!

I had a customer last year who applied grub preventative in June(Merit), but then had grub damage in September!

But I was also listening to NPR recently, and the host said that tests are showing that Merit(imidicloprid) may be causing the honey bee decline by weakening them and making them more susceptible to the diseases killing them! Its also used for lots of other types of I/C.

So what 'new' insect controls actually work without killing the applicator? Have you heard about the bee issues with Merit?
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