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  #91  
Old 04-26-2012, 07:16 AM
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Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly's Landscaping View Post
It's funny how that dreaded $11 Trillion debt is now looked back at as the good old days. And in hindsight we had to worry about January 20th When!!! Obama took office. When you wrote this gas was $1.89 a gallon considering I spent $16,500 on fuel last year that incompetent energy plan he has alone is like a $8000 dollar tax increase on me and lets not even get started on what food cost now.

But still Charles You are the only LIB on this site that has earned or deserves my respect. You were just dead wrong here.
I am not a "lib". I am a moderate, who votes for the right person for the job. During W's reign, I believe gas prices were around $4 per gallon at times. He did get accused of being too close to the Oil industry--correct? The economy went sour, people cut back on driving and prices dropped. We are our worst enemy seeing how we use 25% of the worlds oil. I think we export 2%. Double that and it's 4%. Cheaper fuel means more use worldwide. China and India have dramatically increased their demand for fuel. Back during the Clinton year prices went as low as 99 cents per gallon. What happens when prices go down? Oil companies shut down oil wells and reduce refining. We can't win at this game. Part of the problem now is the refineries. Now refining is back on track and prices have dropped 10 cent in a week. Still you have problems with Iran and the Oil futures Market does no like any threats to shipping. OFM also see's the US economy improving and therefore speculates there will be an increased demand for fuel. Our best bet to win this game is finding alternatives--hybrids, natural gas, propane etc. I think many alternatives are bought out before mass production starts. We can put land rovers on Mars that can run for years but all we can come up with is Ethanol? Give me a break!
Obama had 2 choices. Infuse money into the country or let it sink into a Depression. Banks were failing left and right when he got into office. 59 banks failed in GA in one year, for example. Wall-street , Financial institution and Banks were allowed by the Government to create a financial disaster. $16 trillion in Credit default swaps worldwide. Deregulation went too far. Both the right and left in the Political world were responsible for the debacle. Banks cut back on making loan of any type because they were and still are saddled with bad debt and bad/risky Investments. Obama made a big mistake of letting Congress decide how to spend the Stimulus money. Still many projects got done around the US that otherwise would not have moved forward for decades. Unemployment has stabilized. I see improvements in the economy is my area.
Europe has focused on cutting government spending and reducing debt. Their economies are still tanking, well except for Germany. We have seen rioting over there.
I would vote for a good alternative to Obama--then and now. No one has come forward that even most Republicans can get excited about. I don't think Obama was the best person for the job on the Democrat side either. We don't elect people based on Substance anymore, it seems.
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  #92  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:51 AM
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Kelly's Landscaping Kelly's Landscaping is offline
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No I haven't forgotten about your post Charles just the combination of working the last 14 days and the bitter cold temps here make it so you can't answer when you'd like too.

Now I call people Libs based on what they claim to be for not what they label them selves as. The word moderate is such a joke in our political world and you know that. Lets take a few examples say abortion you are either for killing babies or your not there's no middle ground picking an arbitrary cut off date is still pro killing. Lets do illegal immigration you are either for enforcing our laws or your for letting them stay in the hopes they will be a large block of future democrat voters. There's no middle ground there there's nothing to be moderate about its black and white. You are either for fiscal responsibility I.E. spending not one cent more then we take in or your not there's no middle ground to bankruptcy. Now perhaps you give your self the label based on taking the sides of the opposing views from time to time. That still doesn't make one a moderate I would be considered a Conservative yet I am against the death penalty and I seldom support our so called law enforcement. But that is more of a libertarian view point so is being for a free internet and wanting no regulations at all on its content including the porn. But that doesn't make me a moderate perhaps it makes me complicated but what ever side you lean too the most is your alignment.

Now you posted "He did get accused of being too close to the Oil industry--correct?" Besides being irrelevant its a minority opinion as well. Now what do I mean by that well when asked to describe them selves for the last 40 years or so polls show that just over 40% consider them selves conservative and 19-20% consistently for decades call them selves liberals. So liberals accuse Bush of having connections to the Oil industry who cares. I suppose instead of an opinion I could counter with a real fact. Obama was close to a domestic terrorist Bill Ayers unless you do not consider launching you political career in the guys living room close or sitting on several boards with the man close. Now what I just pointed out I consider irrelevant too the difference is its fact.

Now lets have some fun what you did with your oil stat numbers was very clever. You said we use 25% and then slipped in the 2% number on something else rather then repeating the lie that we only have 2% of the worlds reserves I guess that lie was to much to stomach but at first glance it did look as if you had used that talking point. Now on April 19th this year a new report was released here's a quote from that. "The president's own administration has released a report which reveals that the United States has 26 percent of the world's technically recoverable conventional oil resources, and that's not including our enormous oil shale, tight oil and heavy oil resources" Now if were using 25% and we have 26% whats the problem?!?!

Oil = freedom it lets us do things today that were once impossible. Just yesterday I picked up some new hand carved signs for my trucks. It was a 145 mile round trip if we did not have the internal combustion engine would that have even been considered a day trip? Did the algae claims Obama made last month when Newt was still viable inspire you to think perhaps that will be the new source of energy? Because 175-850 a barrel which is the expected number range in 10 years if they are lucky is not acceptable. Solar is equally disappointing they often say it takes 17 years before you break even for putting solar panels up. This is on a product that is rated for 20 years of life. But Trump said something that caught my ear last year he had just built a new monstrosity and was asked why he didn't make it green and his answer was they did the numbers and it would take 38 years to break even! Now many of us don't like the man but the one thing I do respect is the man can count.

The hypocrisy in the alternative energy industry is amazing for instance the windmills kill 10s of thousands of birds every year. But 8 migratory birds die in a holding pond and the EPA under Obama tried to shut down an oil company that just got tossed out of court by the way. Am I against alternative energy no I am for it but it needs to survive on its own. No grants no government research let the free market work. Obama just spent 3 years doing the opposite and his green energy failures our epic. Do I really need to name all is solar companies of his famed gm volt with like 10000 units sold in 2 years despite huge subsidies.

You brought up banks but fail to see the real issue. A blind man can see it the problem is banks do not lend their own money instead the fed gives them money and ridiculously low rates. And they in turn still feel they need 20% for your credit card. Now if the fed was out of the lending business and the fed was out of backing mortgages and buying them then you can return to a freer market and see the way it was suppose to work. So bank A wants to make money they have their deposits and can lend out a percentage of that now they have to screen and make sure the people will pay them back cause its their money. And that raises the rates BUT bank B C D E and the other 10000 banks also want those grade A clients so they cap what they can charge and they compete for your business. But all that's been removed and whats left is this joke of a system we have now that isn't fixable it needs to be replaced.

I'll take your silence on the 11 trillion in debt that has exploded to over 16 trillion as an acknowledgement Obama didn't make it better he made it much worse. And I will not torture you and go back and look to see in your old posts if you went off about how big the deficits were under Bush. But seeing how you still call him in a disrespectful way W I think its a good bet id find them wouldn't I. Yet I do not see you pointing out that what took Bush 8 years took Obama less then 3 to do. Now a moderate would call that down the middle or at least he should.
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  #93  
Old 07-17-2012, 03:48 AM
gmlca gmlca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly's Landscaping View Post
No I haven't forgotten about your post Charles just the combination of working the last 14 days and the bitter cold temps here make it so you can't answer when you'd like too.

Now I call people Libs based on what they claim to be for not what they label them selves as. The word moderate is such a joke in our political world and you know that. Lets take a few examples say abortion you are either for killing babies or your not there's no middle ground picking an arbitrary cut off date is still pro killing. Lets do illegal immigration you are either for enforcing our laws or your for letting them stay in the hopes they will be a large block of future democrat voters. There's no middle ground there there's nothing to be moderate about its black and white. You are either for fiscal responsibility I.E. spending not one cent more then we take in or your not there's no middle ground to bankruptcy. Now perhaps you give your self the label based on taking the sides of the opposing views from time to time. That still doesn't make one a moderate I would be considered a Conservative yet I am against the death penalty and I seldom support our so called law enforcement. But that is more of a libertarian view point so is being for a free internet and wanting no regulations at all on its content including the porn. But that doesn't make me a moderate perhaps it makes me complicated but what ever side you lean too the most is your alignment.

Now you posted "He did get accused of being too close to the Oil industry--correct?" Besides being irrelevant its a minority opinion as well. Now what do I mean by that well when asked to describe them selves for the last 40 years or so polls show that just over 40% consider them selves conservative and 19-20% consistently for decades call them selves liberals. So liberals accuse Bush of having connections to the Oil industry who cares. I suppose instead of an opinion I could counter with a real fact. Obama was close to a domestic terrorist Bill Ayers unless you do not consider launching you political career in the guys living room close or sitting on several boards with the man close. Now what I just pointed out I consider irrelevant too the difference is its fact.

Now lets have some fun what you did with your oil stat numbers was very clever. You said we use 25% and then slipped in the 2% number on something else rather then repeating the lie that we only have 2% of the worlds reserves I guess that lie was to much to stomach but at first glance it did look as if you had used that talking point. Now on April 19th this year a new report was released here's a quote from that. "The president's own administration has released a report which reveals that the United States has 26 percent of the world's technically recoverable conventional oil resources, and that's not including our enormous oil shale, tight oil and heavy oil resources" Now if were using 25% and we have 26% whats the problem?!?!

Oil = freedom it lets us do things today that were once impossible. Just yesterday I picked up some new hand carved signs for my trucks. It was a 145 mile round trip if we did not have the internal combustion engine would that have even been considered a day trip? Did the algae claims Obama made last month when Newt was still viable inspire you to think perhaps that will be the new source of energy? Because 175-850 a barrel which is the expected number range in 10 years if they are lucky is not acceptable. Solar is equally disappointing they often say it takes 17 years before you break even for putting solar panels up. This is on a product that is rated for 20 years of life. But Trump said something that caught my ear last year he had just built a new monstrosity and was asked why he didn't make it green and his answer was they did the numbers and it would take 38 years to break even! Now many of us don't like the man but the one thing I do respect is the man can count.

The hypocrisy in the alternative energy industry is amazing for instance the windmills kill 10s of thousands of birds every year. But 8 migratory birds die in a holding pond and the EPA under Obama tried to shut down an oil company that just got tossed out of court by the way. Am I against alternative energy no I am for it but it needs to survive on its own. No grants no government research let the free market work. Obama just spent 3 years doing the opposite and his green energy failures our epic. Do I really need to name all is solar companies of his famed gm volt with like 10000 units sold in 2 years despite huge subsidies.

You brought up banks but fail to see the real issue. A blind man can see it the problem is banks do not lend their own money instead the fed gives them money and ridiculously low rates. And they in turn still feel they need 20% for your credit card. Now if the fed was out of the lending business and the fed was out of backing mortgages and buying them then you can return to a freer market and see the way it was suppose to work. So bank A wants to make money they have their deposits and can lend out a percentage of that now they have to screen and make sure the people will pay them back cause its their money. And that raises the rates BUT bank B C D E and the other 10000 banks also want those grade A clients so they cap what they can charge and they compete for your business. But all that's been removed and whats left is this joke of a system we have now that isn't fixable it needs to be replaced.

I'll take your silence on the 11 trillion in debt that has exploded to over 16 trillion as an acknowledgement Obama didn't make it better he made it much worse. And I will not torture you and go back and look to see in your old posts if you went off about how big the deficits were under Bush. But seeing how you still call him in a disrespectful way W I think its a good bet id find them wouldn't I. Yet I do not see you pointing out that what took Bush 8 years took Obama less then 3 to do. Now a moderate would call that down the middle or at least he should.

I'd like to point out that a major reason why the debt has "exploded" to over 16 trillion has a lot to do with bush tax cuts, Medicare Part D being passed under Bush, and the unfunded wars bush started.

Obama should take credit or blame, depending on your political leanings, for the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, that is one of his major works that you can say added to the debt, at about 800 billion thats a relative minor amount compared to the things I pointed to you earlier, not only that but by most accounts it helped the economy in a measurable way. The only thing I would have liked to have seen is less Republican influence on it with about 1/3rd of it in tax cuts, and more with infrastructure spending. That in my opinion has been Obama's problem, that he caved in to republican ideas of tax cuts leaving less spending when we needed it the most.

He would have hit a home run(not necessarily with conservatives, but with the long term health of this nation) if he had spent all of that, if not arguably more, on direct infrastructure projects, not only would we have gotten a lot of American's to work and thus helping a recession at the time, but we would have given our decaying infrastructure a boost.
From where I'm standing, At worst I blame obama 50% for caving in, and at best(for him if you will) I blame Republicans 75% for stalling and filibustering congress for the past 3+ years.

The reason we're not better off now than we could have been, in my opinion of course, isnt because of Obama's ideas, its a mix of his natural want to "compromise", but mostly due to Republican obstructionism. Its not a far stretch to fathom that indeed Republicans are politically better off if they fight positive legislation under an Obama presidency.
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  #94  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:54 AM
garydale garydale is offline
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Quote: "I'd like to point out that a major reason why the debt has "exploded" to over 16 trillion has a lot to do with bush tax cuts, Medicare Part D being passed under Bush, and the unfunded wars bush started." unquote.
Bush tax cuts keep being extended by the Obamanation in office now.
Medicare Part D was a compromise by both parties(neither party getting everything they wanted.
Unfunded wars wars were approved by democratic controlled congress.

Our economy crashed due to Clinton signing a order directing banks to loan money to deadbeats. Followed by Barney Frank assuring the banks that the govorment would stand behind the bad loans.

Bush's rescue package was loans to banks requiring repayment.
Obama's rescue was a slush fund for cronie supporters. ie: GE, Auto unions,Solyndra and other Green schemes.
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  #95  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:48 AM
delphied delphied is offline
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Bush's rescue package was loans to banks requiring repayment.
Obama's rescue was a slush fund for cronie supporters. ie: GE, Auto unions,Solyndra and other Green schemes.[/QUOTE]

Spoken like a true Republican. Mostly lies.
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  #96  
Old 08-05-2012, 02:50 PM
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Kelly's Landscaping Kelly's Landscaping is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmlca View Post
the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, that is one of his major works that you can say added to the debt, at about 800 billion thats a relative minor amount compared to the things I pointed to you earlier, not only that but by most accounts it helped the economy in a measurable way. .
800 billion plus interest makes it a trillion. But here's where your really wrong we use baseline budgeting so once you spend it you can not take it back. So that 800 is every year for ever. Now using Dem math since you spend it you only count it the first year but if that was a tax cut then you X it by 10 years (don't ask why no one knows) so that makes that 8 trillion.

But don't take my word for it look at the budgets 2008 is what 2.7-2.9 trillion depending on where you look. Whats 2009 look like 4 trillion in spending and 2010 3.7 trillion and 2011 3.8 trillion and 2012 you guessed it 3.7-3.8 trillion

If 2.7 trillion was far to much to spend under Bush and this we do agree on then whats wrong with you to pretend 3.7 trillion to 4 trillion is acceptable for the next 4 years afterwards.

I loved your line about Obama wanting to compromise you can not be that ignorant. I remember his idea of compromise when he told McCain we won you lost now sit in the back. He never asks the senate to compromise on anything is always the house and its only because he no longer owns it. He creates distraction then offers to give waivers for a year or 2 so long as you give up everything you stand for.
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  #97  
Old 08-06-2012, 09:42 PM
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Kelly's Landscaping Kelly's Landscaping is offline
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Looking forward to the new thread Sean is going to be posting in about 6 months. How will you act differently now that Obama is no longer in office?!?
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  #98  
Old 08-11-2012, 03:11 PM
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Tharrell Tharrell is offline
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OR, a new thread on how you'll run your business IF he gets reelected?
Perish that thought.
I'll be going Galt myself.
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NoMoreObama '12
Well, I hope everyone is happy now.
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