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  #31  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:00 PM
hlty hlty is offline
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opinions

Opinions are one thing facts are another. I have been in the lawn service since 1988 and I have used each machine for at least one or more seasons in varied situations. What machines have your owned and for how long have you used them? That is the difference between fact and opinion.
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  #32  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:25 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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It has nothing to do with how many different machines you've ran as to whether or not is is fact. It has to do with it being your personal opinion. Opinons don't make anything fact.

For instance- The Deere decks don't hang on chains, and they don't dip on the downhill side while side hilling. That's a fact that you either overlooked or just got wrong. Maybe you haven't operated one for a while and just aren't aware of it, I don't know. I am just going by what you posted, and it is incorrect. As far as all machines going basically the same speed because of the ground conditions- I call BS on that one too. I do agree with you that you can't actually use full sticks everywhere and leave a good looking cut, but for most of us, being able to go faster than you can on a Walker makes us more money. On top of that, we can get done enough quicker to have time to go back and trim and still get done as fast, or faster than you can on your Walker. I cut just down the street from some yards that get cut by a Walker, and I can get done quicker on a larger lot with roughly the same amount of stuff to cut and trim around as on the other lots cut with the Walker, with every bit as fine a finish as the Walker leaves, and far nicer looking stripes to boot.

If you like them, that's fine with me. I have no problem with anyone else using one, but I do have a probelm with self righteous guys coming on and spouting off opinions about how a Walker is superior to all other machines. If that were even remotely true, we'd most likely all be using one.

Walkers, like everything in this business, have their place (especially for bagging), but that does not make them the best choice by any stretch of the imagination for 90%+ of us.
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  #33  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:53 PM
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BPS## BPS## is offline
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I find it very comical that Walkers generate so much hatred.
Apparently many folks feel threatened by them.


And Deeres do hang on chains. At least some of them do.
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  #34  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:39 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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If you're referring to me, I don't feel threatened by them, but it gets old hearing how they are supposed to be superior to other machines when they aren't. It always seems Walker owners feel the need to come onto every thread where someone is asking about Z's and start in bragging about them. No brand is the ne plus ultra including Deere, Scag, Exmark etc etc. Walkers don't cut any better than the many Deere machines I've owned, nor the Toro, and all of the ones I've had left superior looking stripes on our grasses here. Walkers aren't the answer to everyones problem. Like I said earlier today, they have their places where they excell, but it isn't EVERY place.

Early Deere Z decks hung on chains, but they haven't for several years now. Just an FYI.

Last edited by Ridin' Green; 04-30-2012 at 11:45 PM.
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  #35  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:06 AM
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mtmower mtmower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlty View Post
mtmower,

I have used many different mowers through the years, the z turns I have used are Toro, JD, Kubota, Husky, Hustler and demoed a bad boy. The walkers I've used are the GHS, Super Bee, Bee. I have owned the Super Bee with the 60 inch rough/finish deck with 27 hp and the newer walker with the yanmar diesel with the 52 inch mulch/finish deck with rear discharge. Every machine has strenghts and weakness's but with the Z turn mower, having the steering and forward control on one lever is a real disadvantage on steep hills. When you are going down hill the wheel that turns the machine either right or left spins backwards and tends to slip rather than turn, pushing you straight down the hill. Walkers have independent forward and turn levers giving you much better control on steep terrain. Going up hill with a Z mower without front weight lifts the front of the mower off the ground and because the deck lifts up when the front wheels come off the ground, you get uneven cuts. As far as really steep terrain goes, the walker will back up anything, you just put more weight down on footrest to keep the tail down and the deck is independent so it stays on the ground. When mowing with a Z turn on steep hillsides mowing sideways, they tend to cut lower on the down hill side due to gravity and the deck hanging chains as opposed to free floating.

As far as striping is concerned, I think your pictures pretty much tell the story as to which looks better and more defined. Truly of all the decks I have used, the 52 rear discharge/mulch walker deck is the most versatile deck I have ever used. It mows an executive lawn and then mows a lot and leaves little residue (wet or dry) and what is left is like sawdust. It never plugs up and strips better than the 60.

Mowing speed is truly about the same with all mowers in this class as most ground dictates a speed slower than a machine is capable of mowing. Every machine I have used when pushed to the max always leave mowing donuts on areas where the deck bounces on rough spots and very few big areas are perfectly smooth. Walker mowers are faster because they mow closer than z turns which equates into less weed eating time. Having a deck out front is always going to be faster than a mid mount. Getting under things rather than just up to makes a world of difference on how much weed eating has to be done which equates in to faster time and more money.

Deck weight in any big mower is considerable and lifting the walker takes some strength but cleaning, servicing and normal day to day mowing makes the out front deck much more functional than having to run your mower up on ramps or a trailer to change blades or clean a clogged deck.

Walker mowers are all american made which is a rarity these days and Vaughn is without question the best dealer I have ever worked with, he goes out of his way to make sure your up and running in every situation and one of very few who really has service after the sale.

Situations change from year to year and having the ability to change to any size deck from 42 to 72 quickly on the same tractor is a real plus. Changing a deck on a walker takes about 3 minutes. Also the many attachments which are first party makes them the most versatile machine out there.
Everybody has their own opinion and tend to push what they have and what they are used to running but the bottom line is if you have used each mower over an extensive period of time, the walker wins all around.

Though I do agree with a lot of what your saying a couple of things I do not from my experiences. If you reread my review you will see that I like it's QOC, I like the looks of the machine, I like the power, I like build, fit and finish, and the speed was plenty for the mower type. The design just didn't fit my needs. Again it was a rookie move to not check tire psi to eliminate that possible issue if it was indeed effecting the operation of the machine. I do not want to come across as a brand basher just trying to make people mad. I was honestly trying to give information to people like myself that may be considering one and might be curious to what another mid mount guy might think.

I have never experienced the situation you talk about in thousands of hrs. use on a mid mount where the turning wheel reverses, causing problems. It only reverses if I make it reverse, the same with the Walker. I slow the turning wheel way down almost to a stop but not quite and keep the speed on the opposing wheel faster than this to turn. Stopping a wheel and turning on it like a pivot on either machine will tear turf or on a steep slope be a recipe for sliding. On flat ground if I need to turn short then I may consider reversing on wheels direction from the other on either machine. But this is rare because you end up right on top of your last pass.

The backing up a slope on a Walker I found is how it best can climb. I guess I'm have not run one long enough and not sure I have the leg strength or coordination to put enough pressure on the deck to keep the back end down on the slope I was on. Again this is a very steep slope, and my guess would be many would not consider mowing it with a rider even. Call me crazy.

If tire psi was playing a factor in my demo it may have held better side hilling then it did and also the ride may not have been as rough. I can't honestly tell you. But on either machine regardless or smooth or rough I would and can mow faster with my mid mount. Maybe not with the quality of cut that the Walker has for this is a down fall of my Hustlers. The way the Walker was doing for me, it was keeping me from traveling as fast as the deck could have cut. Again not being use to it, every big bump effecting the deck/tractor moved my legs which my forearms where resting on and as a result it effected my speed and steering. If I used it longer I may have found not to rely on my legs as a resting point as much. I guess I'm too lazy.

I can run my mower up my already lowered trailer ramp and be under it faster than anyone can put a deck of any size up on a Walker and with less effort. Would I rather not lay on the ground and be able have better access, light, and the option to change out the deck for something else? Sure I see the value in this too.

I'm shopping mowers and most of the mowers I am looking at are American made. Even their small parts are being made in house like pulleys and such. That's one thing I do like about the commercial mowing industry. The outsourcing I feel is no where near what other industries are. What is becoming more of rarity is good dealers with customer service. As I stated earlier Vaughn is one of the best dealers in our area, I also understand he is the distributor. I have had nothing but excellent sales and service from him.

I'm glad Walker works great for you and many other people and I hope it continues to give you the service you expect. I was not trying to put down the product, the dealer, or the people that chose them and use them. I was giving a review of my opinions based on the equipment I listed that I use on here so people could take what they wanted from it. I wish now this thread could be removed from the site but we live and learn.
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  #36  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:54 AM
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mtmower mtmower is offline
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I guess this disqualifies me to win a Walker on "The B Difference Drive & Win"
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  #37  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:07 AM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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mtnmower-
I apologize for my part in getting your fine review off course. It wasn't my intent, but the bickering that sometimes happens is not necessary, and I won't comment further in this thread.
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  #38  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:55 AM
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mtmower mtmower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
mtnmower-
I apologize for my part in getting your fine review off course. It wasn't my intent, but the bickering that sometimes happens is not necessary, and I won't comment further in this thread.
No worries brother. Everyone is allowed there thoughts and opinions. That's what a forums all about.
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  #39  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:37 PM
mjstef mjstef is offline
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I will have to agree with MT that your feet riding on the deck, up and down ditches and over humps and bumps is an issue. I demoe'd a Navigator last week and had a few cases of knees in the chest and also feet in the air on my own personal lawn. Also i feel i am leaning forward running them instead of sitting in a relaxed position. The independent speed control is a REAL learning curve even as a heavy equipment operator for over 20 years. I will say the cut looks good though. I have been shopping as well. Vaughn is a good rep for Walker. I spoke with him for the 1st time on Friday. I am second guessing myself now though and i am beginning to think Walker won't fit the bill for me as i have been getting very large estates this year. The Super B would cut as well as my Grasshopper but the ride quality is not there due to the lack of an operators platform hooked to the tractor instead of the deck. If i do buy one i will likely put it on my high end stuff and hire someone who likes to run one. I'm waaaay more efficient on my Grasshopper.............
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2012 Grasshopper 725D T6 with 52" Mulching and 61" Side Discharge/Bagging decks.
2009 Encore FZ48 Front Mount Side Discharge & bagger.
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  #40  
Old 05-02-2012, 09:24 PM
hlty hlty is offline
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The speed on walker superbee yanmar 23 hp is 10mph, a John Deere Z920A is 10.5 mph so I don't think 1/2 mph is going to give you much advantage in all day mowing. I had two JD Z trac mowers and I liked them. I like the 7 iron deck also, what I like about the 52 deck is that it gives a better look because almost all the grass is mulched to nothing and what little there is negligible compared to side discharging and is much better for building the lawn which equates to happier customers. Also you can cut from either direction without discharging grass into beds and trees and can change directions each cut. I personally am always looking for better machines and better ways in this business and truly hate to bag and haul grass. I am presently using a Kubota GR2120 diesel all wheel drive, a 23 hp superbee yamar walker, a 23 hp EFI walker dedicated mulcher and a GHS walker with a kubota 21 hp diesel engine. Of all the Z turns I have owned I probably liked the Kubota ZG227 the best for comfort, cut and power.
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