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  #51  
Old 06-09-2012, 12:01 PM
steveparrott steveparrott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLewis View Post
Here's another one we did not too long ago with the Kichler LED. You don't like the color of the lights in this photo?

(By the way, this is with no lenses and no photo enhancement. This is the true color that came out of the Kichler 15742)

.
One important aspect of LED color is consistency across the beam. Not sure if it's an artifact of the photo, but if you look at the color of the square columns, you'll notice it changes from the bottom (edge of the beam - brownish) to the top (middle of the beam - more white).

It's easy to see this if you project the light onto a poster board. I've done this in our lab and the brownish-orangish rim is clearly visible (with some mfgs). I measured color temp across the beam and it changes drastically near the rim. This is a serious problem with lighting columns and light-colored walls.

The problem is evident with some chip mfgs. and is primarily caused by irregularities with, or presence of, poorly designed phosphor coatings on the chip. Keep in mind that many mfgs. save money by purchasing cheap chips.
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  #52  
Old 06-09-2012, 12:09 PM
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JimLewis JimLewis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting View Post
I would highly recommend that you guys join the AOLP and attend the Annual Conferences, paying close attention to the LAMP program that they offer.
Well, I'm still not really convinced I need to join. But I am interested. I called them a few weeks ago - asking for a return call - and nobody has called me back yet. I wanted to know if there were others in my area.... If there was a chapter. I also wanted to discuss the benefits of membership and see what I'd really be getting for joining. But no call back. So I dunno.

As far as I can tell, there is not a chapter in my area. And they don't appear to be interested in returning my call. But if they do, I'll talk to them about it. I'm sort of interested. I'd be a lot more interested if there was a local chapter.
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  #53  
Old 06-09-2012, 01:23 PM
S&MLL S&MLL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLewis View Post
Well, I'm still not really convinced I need to join. But I am interested. I called them a few weeks ago - asking for a return call - and nobody has called me back yet. I wanted to know if there were others in my area.... If there was a chapter. I also wanted to discuss the benefits of membership and see what I'd really be getting for joining. But no call back. So I dunno.

As far as I can tell, there is not a chapter in my area. And they don't appear to be interested in returning my call. But iffie they do, I'll talk to them about it. I'm sort of interested. I'd be a lot more interested if there was a local chapter.
Feel free to send me a pm ill give you my cell number if you want to talk about the aolp. They seem to be a little un organized over there. Took me about 6 weeks to get a welcome folder once i signed up
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  #54  
Old 06-09-2012, 11:41 PM
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starry night starry night is online now
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Originally Posted by S&MLL View Post
........... Took me about 6 weeks to get a welcome folder once i signed up
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You got yours in only six weeks?
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  #55  
Old 06-10-2012, 12:25 AM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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This has been a good thread , I just want to thank everyone that got Involved , I spent the day an evening with two clients and I must say I am shot and calling it a nite.

Richie
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  #56  
Old 06-12-2012, 02:24 PM
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NightScenes NightScenes is offline
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I just checked in, sorry guys. I just don't have the time to be on here as often as I used to. The AOLP office had to make some personel changes recently and everything should move much smoother now. I'm sorry for the lack of communications and slow responses that anyone has had to deal with. Please drop me a note anytime (look at my profile for email address or website). www.night-scenes.com
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  #57  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:05 PM
Relleum Relleum is offline
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Originally Posted by Richie@ View Post
Jim,

All of the charts and power point are very Informative but take 2 Bullets 1 with LED the other with MR 16 20 watt and aim them at 2 of the same objects and you will see a color difference , MR 16 will show a better color.
Please understand the gravity and truth to this statement. I purchased over $1000 worth of integrated led fixtures from Volt (their TM 20 and 35 line), and the color output is a problem. They claim 2800k, but they don't look anything like halogen 2800k. It is a shame too, because i combed tons of forums, reviews, and blogs before I took the plunge.

I finally asked them to swap all of them out for their mr16 uplights, and they were gracious enough to oblige (since they are already installed and thus in eligible for exchange). But before I rip them out, I might try filters to get the desired warmth. It's a really tough decision because I know LEDs are the future, but I don't want to spend every night coming home to lights that I don't like..

@JimLewis, you are dead wrong to say that color output is subjective based on our previous experience with halogen. We've had fluorescents forever now, and nobody except my father in law thinks that color is appealing. The problem with most quality LEDs in my experience is that they haven't gotten rid of a slight greenish hue that isn't present with a regular halogen.

So I think Richie's statement needs to be fully addressed by the pros. Because I'm not happy with my LED landscape lighting, and it isn't because my taste has to evolve.
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  #58  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:26 PM
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starry night starry night is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relleum View Post
Please understand the gravity and truth to this statement. I purchased over $1000 worth of integrated led fixtures from Volt (their TM 20 and 35 line), and the color output is a problem. They claim 2800k, but they don't look anything like halogen 2800k. .......... But before I rip them out, I might try filters to get the desired warmth. ............
I am astonished to hear your opinion. I, too, tried some of Volt's Infinity integrated LED fixtures. not 2800K? They looked more like 2600K to me. (And my pro photographer agreed.)
They were way TOO WARM for the application I intended them for. They looked too yellow on the sandstone facade I was trying to light.
I finally found a use for them on some white painted columns of another project where they looked appropriately warm.
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  #59  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:29 PM
S&MLL S&MLL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relleum View Post
Please understand the gravity and truth to this statement. I purchased over $1000 worth of integrated led fixtures from Volt (their TM 20 and 35 line), and the color output is a problem. They claim 2800k, but they don't look anything like halogen 2800k. It is a shame too, because i combed tons of forums, reviews, and blogs before I took the plunge.

I finally asked them to swap all of them out for their mr16 uplights, and they were gracious enough to oblige (since they are already installed and thus in eligible for exchange). But before I rip them out, I might try filters to get the desired warmth. It's a really tough decision because I know LEDs are the future, but I don't want to spend every night coming home to lights that I don't like..

@JimLewis, you are dead wrong to say that color output is subjective based on our previous experience with halogen. We've had fluorescents forever now, and nobody except my father in law thinks that color is appealing. The problem with most quality LEDs in my experience is that they haven't gotten rid of a slight greenish hue that isn't present with a regular halogen.

So I think Richie's statement needs to be fully addressed by the pros. Because I'm not happy with my LED landscape lighting, and it isn't because my taste has to evolve.
What voltage do you run your mr16s at? I run mine around 11.8-12.2 mostly run prism sure color 5k hour lamps. I find a high quality 2700k retro mr16led lamp to be dead on.

Now say you run mr16s in the 10 range then a 2800k led will look way different
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  #60  
Old 06-16-2012, 11:52 AM
Relleum Relleum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starry night View Post
I am astonished to hear your opinion. I, too, tried some of Volt's Infinity integrated LED fixtures. not 2800K? They looked more like 2600K to me. (And my pro photographer agreed.)
They were way TOO WARM for the application I intended them for. They looked too yellow on the sandstone facade I was trying to light.
I finally found a use for them on some white painted columns of another project where they looked appropriately warm.
Too yellow is not very descriptive. To me, a landscape 2800K should be a warm orange, with no hints of green or blue, but no hints of pink either. It's all about sufficient, balanced color.

I'll refer back to the Cree color chart that Jim posted:



I was expecting output in the small blue circle from the volt TM 20s. Instead what I'm seeing is a varying range in the aqua area. The most important takeaway is the hint of green that bleeds in at those levels. It really throws everything off. Now I am not necessarily saying their lights are actually in the 3300-3700k range, but that is where the green happens to start showing on my monitor in the same quantity that I am seeing with the Volts.

And these aren't the first LEDs that I have with a touch of green hue. My undercabinet kitchen LEDs have the same thing. The only LEDs I've seen that do a great job of eliminating the green is the Cree CR6 - very natural output. Most people talk about the cold blue color of cheap solars or LEDs, but substituting with green (even a little) has the same effect, just not as pronounced.

Last edited by Relleum; 06-16-2012 at 11:56 AM.
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