EPA emissions requirements and Ethanol fuel. How much of your equipment is ruined?

[cgaengineer]

Originally Posted by CL&T

That's comparing apples to oranges. I want to see straight 91 grade without ethanol compared to the same gasoline now with 10% ethanol added. I agree that the RON is going to increase but with 10% it's going to be slight. Matter of fact I don't even think the R+M/2 number on the pump even takes into account the added ethanol especially since it's added after the fact. Further, the intention for adding ethanol is not to boost octane, but to tell the public we have reduced our gasoline consumption by 10% with something produced in this country. Unfortunately in reality it doesn't work that way because of poorer mileage.

Here is what Ford has to say about E85 and remember that this is 85% ethanol and only 15% gasoline:

Want to add power to Ford's all-new 5.0-liter V-8 for the 2011 F-150 without making a single hardware or software change? Just burn E85 ethanol fuel.

360 horsepower (at 5,500 rpm) and 380 pounds-feet of torque (at 4,250 rpm) running on regular unleaded gasoline.

Burning E85 fuel boosts 5.0 engine power to 375 hp and 390 pounds-feet of torque, said Mike Harrison, Ford's program manager for V-8 engines.

Ethanol has a higher octane and heat-of-vaporization point than gasoline, meaning it combusts at a higher temperature and with greater force (higher compression) than gasoline, while also having a greater capacity to cool the fuel/air mix in the cylinder before combustion.

This inherent efficiency is what enables the 5.0 to produce more power while burning E85 instead of regular unleaded fuel.

There's a trade-off, though. Even though E85 combusts with greater force, it has less energy per gallon than regular unleaded gasoline, so fuel economy is worse when burning E85.

There's the reason straight ethanol is used as a racing fuel but at 10% in an engine designed for gasoline the benefit is less than zero.

Hmm...this backs up some of my posts in another thread.
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[cgaengineer]

I've had one problem with a fuel pump that I can only think was from ethanol...first pump (mikuni) lasted 5 years, second pump (rotary) lasted 1 month, third pump (mikuni) has been good so far so I can only think that the first pump that sims decided to dissolve one day had had enough...the second was inferior plastic not designed for alcohol and the third being OEM is again designed to handle alcohol fuels.

Zero problems with other equipment and I but the cheapest fuel I can find...I am not fuel brand loyal. I use no additives in any fuel.
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[cgaengineer]

Originally Posted by Richard Martin

There is something you can do to help your larger equipment like mowers. Part of the problem with ethanol enhanced fuels is it eats rubber. If you're having a problem with it eating your fuel lines you can do one of 2 things.

1: Buy high quality, American made, fuel injection hose. These hoses are made to resist the alcohol. They do a much better job of it than a regular hose and a much better job than a Chinese manufactured hose.

2: You can use an even better hose than that though. I've been using EFI nylon fuel line when I can. It is a hard nylon tubing. It's inside size is .275" or slightly larger than 1/4". You have to heat it up to bend it into the shape you want and to slip it over fuel fittings. I've had no failures of this line so far and it's good for at least 20 years or so. You can buy it here: http://www.ronmorrisperformance.com/..._and_Fuel_Line

Fuel line for radio controlled equipment should be alcohol resistant, also look for fuel hose for alcohol kart racing.
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[Mark Oomkes]

Originally Posted by cgaengineer

I've had one problem with a fuel pump that I can only think was from ethanol...first pump (mikuni) lasted 5 years, second pump (rotary) lasted 1 month, third pump (mikuni) has been good so far so I can only think that the first pump that sims decided to dissolve one day had had enough...the second was inferior plastic not designed for alcohol and the third being OEM is again designed to handle alcohol fuels.

Zero problems with other equipment and I but the cheapest fuel I can find...I am not fuel brand loyal. I use no additives in any fuel.
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My mechanic loves ethanol. He said it is great work for him as it causes the rubber inside fuel pumps to swell and stop pumping.

Then again, he loves Ford's 6.0 POS diesel because that brings a lot of work his way too.

[cgaengineer]

Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes

My mechanic loves ethanol. He said it is great work for him as it causes the rubber inside fuel pumps to swell and stop pumping.

Then again, he loves Ford's 6.0 POS diesel because that brings a lot of work his way too.

This particular pump was a diaphragm pump on a mower, not a typical gear pump on an auto.
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[Keith]

Originally Posted by TNGrassCutter

Busted rotted primer bulbs, rotted fuel lines, and a broken seal on a fuel tank.
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And quick too, apparently. All of my current equipment has never seen E10, until July 4th. I didn't want to do it, but I ran out of gas with two lawns to go. Picked up 1 gallon and threw the bottle of oil in there. By late yesterday afternoon I had a Kawi edger and trimmer with split primer bulbs. The edger refuses to rev at all. This a piece of equipment that has never given me a minute of problem. On the last lawn today the blower is slow to revs and sounds terrible.

I guess I should have just called it a day and waited until Thursday morning the get my gasoline. I knew not to do it, but figured I was being paranoid and one tank wouldn't hurt anything.

[GreenT]

Originally Posted by Keith

And quick too, apparently.

That would be way too quick, imo.

.

[cgaengineer]

Originally Posted by GreenT

That would be way too quick, imo.

.

Yeah, one day ain't gonna do what you describe.
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[ngibson6]

Originally Posted by Terry Metro Lawn

I see you folks are quite passionate about this subject. Discussion good, namecalling bad. Just my .02.

I think we can all agree that ethanol costs much more than is passed-on. How long the Gov will continue to support this cost, who knows?

Unfortunately unless we go E100 we are still forced to import a substantial amount of oil.

The shelf life of ordinary gasoline is two weeks. Ethanol separates from gasoline (floats) a lot faster than that.

I don't think ethanol is the answer. It simply costs too much to produce plus it's very hard starting in cold weather.

We have domestic fuels available and not just propane. Why reinvent the wheel?

Hard starting in cold weather has nothing to do with ethanol. I'm originally from up north and experienced temps as low as -35F and never once felt there was a starting issue with a vehicle because of ethanol.

Also to those of you whining about subsidies, those expired at the end of 2011.

As for the notion that the entire kernel is used for ethanol production and there is nothing left, this is false. One of the by-products is dried distillers grains (DDGs) and this is fed to livestock.

I have never had an issue with any piece of equipment because of ethanol. Have a Shindaiwa trimmer that's six years old with the original carb. Shindaiwa blower that's 7 years old with original carb. I have read so many times someone will buy a trimmer or whatever and after a month say that ethanol ate the primer, fuel lines, ect. Then why don't you have to replace all primer bulbs, fuel lines, carbs, fuel pumps on everything monthly? This just doesn't make sense. I know someone who has a stihl trimmer that is almost 25 years old with the original primer, fuel lines and carb.

As far as ethanol wrecking fuel pumps in cars and trucks, I had a early 90s truck that ran ethanol all it's life. Original fuel pump was replaced at around 250,000 miles.

We had ethanol come to the pumps up north in the late 80s. I remember all the doom and gloom talk about how it was going to wreck everything and small engines would burn up and all that. Funny thing after a few months nothing happened and it was never talked about again.

These are all just my observations obviously but just can not understand how one guy has nothing but problems that are supposedly traced back to ethanol, and another guy has no problems. And they are running similar equipment.

[Mark Oomkes]

Originally Posted by ngibson6

Hard starting in cold weather has nothing to do with ethanol. I'm originally from up north and experienced temps as low as -35F and never once felt there was a starting issue with a vehicle because of ethanol.

Also to those of you whining about subsidies, those expired at the end of 2011.

As for the notion that the entire kernel is used for ethanol production and there is nothing left, this is false. One of the by-products is dried distillers grains (DDGs) and this is fed to livestock.

I have never had an issue with any piece of equipment because of ethanol. Have a Shindaiwa trimmer that's six years old with the original carb. Shindaiwa blower that's 7 years old with original carb. I have read so many times someone will buy a trimmer or whatever and after a month say that ethanol ate the primer, fuel lines, ect. Then why don't you have to replace all primer bulbs, fuel lines, carbs, fuel pumps on everything monthly? This just doesn't make sense. I know someone who has a stihl trimmer that is almost 25 years old with the original primer, fuel lines and carb.

As far as ethanol wrecking fuel pumps in cars and trucks, I had a early 90s truck that ran ethanol all it's life. Original fuel pump was replaced at around 250,000 miles.

We had ethanol come to the pumps up north in the late 80s. I remember all the doom and gloom talk about how it was going to wreck everything and small engines would burn up and all that. Funny thing after a few months nothing happened and it was never talked about again.

These are all just my observations obviously but just can not understand how one guy has nothing but problems that are supposedly traced back to ethanol, and another guy has no problems. And they are running similar equipment.

Then explain to me why after switching to recreational gas (ZERO ethanol) all my problems have gone away? Heck of a coincidence.