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  #101  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:16 AM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDLandscapes VT View Post
thank you 32vld

more on the topic http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers...entID_81304851


Overhead and indirect expenses kill the bottom line.....I know that the guys will be only 80% efficient for the day but I bill for more hours with less expense=more to the bottom line

A simplified example--I ve assumed the only direct costs for mowing are labor and fuel simplified, but fair. Also we will assume that these companies have identical rent, mowers, insurance, etc. The first company with one man crews has two trucks to do the work and frankly probably has more equipment on two one man crews than one three man crew would carry--but for simplicity and fairness

100% for one guy 8 hr day @ $60 per hour = $480.00 ( for this example we ll have two one man crews) total gross daily revenue = $960.00
Gross revenue $960.00 - [wages (2@$15.00w/ matching etc $18.00 per hour)] $288.00=$672.00
$672.00-direct expense (fuels--6 gallons unleaded for mowers, 10 gallons for each truck 32 gallons@$3.75 per) $120.00=$552.00
Gross Profit 2 one man =$552.00


3 Man crew 8 hrs @ 80% efficiency = 19.2 billable hours @ $60.00 =$1,152.00
Wages 1 @ $15 2 @ $12 with burden = $18 * 8 +2*$14.40*8=$374.40
$1,152.00-$374.40=$777.60
Fuel truck @ 10 gallons, mowers total 19 gallons--29 gallons @ $3.75=$108.75
Gross Profit 3 man= $668.85

It would be tough to just pull some indirect cost numbers out of the air--but lets just for example say that each company pays the same rent and the same price for each piece of equipment and vehicle in maintenance, depreciation etc. Company A has more trucks, more trailers to expense from less gross profit.....leaves less to take home at the end of the day----
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  #102  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:22 AM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
No, you said liars use numbers to prove their point, then proceeded to use numbers to prove your point.

So what you did is call yourself a liar. I had nothing to disprove.

As for the rest, I'm not going to waste further monitor ink explaining a concept that can not be grasped by a good portion of the posters on this thread.

There is a minute amount of validity to your points, but you are missing one HUGE thing. So is SDwhatever.
why is this thread still alive?

There is a reason most people can not grasp your concepts.
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  #103  
Old 06-20-2012, 08:05 AM
SDLandscapes VT SDLandscapes VT is offline
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So Mark

What is this HUGE thing that we are missing---if it really is that big of a deal lay it out here. Frankly you have yet to defend your position with a solid numerical example.

Lay it out here and let's discuss
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  #104  
Old 06-20-2012, 08:18 AM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDLandscapes VT View Post
So Mark

What is this HUGE thing that we are missing---if it really is that big of a deal lay it out here. Frankly you have yet to defend your position with a solid numerical example.

Lay it out here and let's discuss
I won't use numbers, as according to 32whatever liars use numbers. Besides, if you read my posts, I stated I no longer have access to my actual numbers from back when I did use 1 man crews. But I am going back to them.

As for defending it, if some can't grasp the fact that higher revenue does not automatically mean higher profits, there is no point in wasting monitor ink.

Thanks for the challenge, but many\most are beyond it in this thread.
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  #105  
Old 06-20-2012, 01:26 PM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
I won't use numbers, as according to 32whatever liars use numbers. Besides, if you read my posts, I stated I no longer have access to my actual numbers from back when I did use 1 man crews. But I am going back to them.

As for defending it, if some can't grasp the fact that higher revenue does not automatically mean higher profits, there is no point in wasting monitor ink.

Thanks for the challenge, but many\most are beyond it in this thread.
Some can't grasp the fact that I never said higher revenue automatically means higher profits. That is too general of a statement to hold true 100% of the time.

Some also can't grasp that because one man working alone means more money at the end of the day because there is lower labor costs does not hold true. Another statement that is is too general to hold true 100% of the time.

And, that when there is more then one man working on a job that one of them will be standing around with their hands in their pockets lowering profits is not a guarantee either.

In the end of the day with everything being equal a two man crew will put more money into the business owners pockets.

Every point claimed about how a one man crew is better has not shown to put more money in the business owner's pocket at the end of the day.


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  #106  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:06 PM
jrs.landscaping's Avatar
jrs.landscaping jrs.landscaping is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
Dollars per hour, you'll never beat 1 man crews.

I never made as much money mowing as when I had 2 one man crews and 1 two man crew. There's a good chance you won't either.

If everything stays the same, more or less, I will be going back to that by next year, if not sooner.
Why would you stray from a proven business concept? You are defending single man crews yet you no longer run them? If you could please explain, a few of us posters would love to hear why you no longer do business using the most productive and cost effecient manner possible?
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  #107  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:42 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Originally Posted by jrs.landscaping View Post
Why would you stray from a proven business concept? You are defending single man crews yet you no longer run them? If you could please explain, a few of us posters would love to hear why you no longer do business using the most productive and cost effecient manner possible?
Notice the last sentence of my post.

One of the biggest reasons was some changes of customer profiles, which isn't really a good reason looking at what has happened since then.

Other even more important reason was personnel changes.

Not going to deny, hypocritical of me, but I see the issue and am changing it. I had one last year and this year. If things keep going this year, I will be splitting it to see how it works out with the personnel I have. As for equipment, I can split the crew up. No need to purchase more, other than a handheld or 3. Although it would give me a great excuse to get a Grandstand.
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