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  #41  
Old 06-23-2012, 12:57 AM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Yes. Cleaned weekly. The one in the pic was kept as clean as you see it for the 3 weeks we used it. Top notch mom and pop business.

No problems. Most people would rather see a potty then have their kids watch the workers go wee wee in the bushes.
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
With 3 guys we install no less than 500 sf in one 8 hr day. Once in a while they may hit 550 to 600 sf.

This is for patios an big areas. Walks take much longer.

So if you're doing 2000 sf, right there is 4 days of dropping pavers in place.

Plus 1/2 a day for brushing in sand. In addition to the aforementioned 4 days.

Plus about a day for cutting pavers (border, turns, obsticals, etc)

So right there you have a min of 5 days tied up just in handling of the pavers.

Without seeing the layout I'm gonna say you have 2 days just in installing and compacting the aggregate base. Not including excavation.

You're taking up 2000 sf of existing pavers on the ground? Whoo-we that's alotta work. Taking up the pavers, CLEANING THE SAND OFF OF THEM. Pallatizing, and wrapping with shrunk wrap so they don't spill all over the yard is an easy additional 8 hrs.

So far we're at 8 days and we haven't even factored in excavating, turf restoration, and daily clean up.

Your experience level? Please tell us about that. Pictures of past jobs would be nice to see

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If I would have read this post before doing our biggest patio job(2700 sq ft) I would have laughed at the times posted . I originally thought I would have easily been able to make the cuts and sweep sand in a day no problem. I was shocked at how long something seemingly simple like sweeping sand could actually take. We avg just under 500 sq ft per day using Holland Stone. There is alot of stoping and checking your joint line with string lines then tweaking anything off course.
Our base took close to 3 days but we did have to wheel it (Yikes!!!!).
Our patio wasn't to be perfectly flat becaue of a sewer drain (water needed to flow in a dual slope manner) so it probably took the better part of a day just to set the screed rails with the laser.....FWIW
Good Luck with the project
Steve
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  #43  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:23 PM
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500 SF of holland stone in a day is a pretty good amount of work. Those 4x8 suck up time because they're small.


I am convinced that many contractors (or so called contractors) like to under estimate the scope of work. They see a nice job that they know they have a real strong shot at getting. So they play it down, because in their mind they want the job. They want the money, and they want to be able to say "we did a patio that used 21 pallets of pavers".

There is no such thing as simply "click and drop".

Like Xtreem said - there is measuring. There is stopping and making sure the joint lines are ALL straight. And there is STRAIGHTENING the joint lines because the probably are NOT straight!

Our biggest paver install was a 6000 sf driveway.

We have done a 3200 SF pool deck.

And we have multiple pool decks ranging from 1600 SF to 2200 SF.

The reason I'm stating this is because I'm trying to get the point across that I know my $h!t


Pool decks are even trickier. The pools are either rectanuglar or rounded (duh!) But......you have to maintain STRAIGHT and SQUARE joints on ALL SIDES of the pool! If the pool is NOT square - you will have MUCH trouble making straight and square joint lines.

And if the pool IS square - you'll still have trouble making straight and square joint lines. We have one pool deck that I assure you - the lines are perfect. Flawless. It probably took about 2 hours of measuring and measuring and double checking, staring at the ground, and coming up with a plan.

And we have other pool decks where we have had to use creativity to conceal the break in the flow of lines. The pools were rounded, making it nearly impossible to get the pavers to meet up perfect. But if you were to go to these jobs, even the best paver installers would have to really study the pavers to find where we made it work.

Hot summer temps are production killers. You're in blazing sun, on sand, with heat radiating off the sand and the pavers that are being put in place. Everyone is grumpy and doesnt want to be there. Making a lot of stops to drink water and to rest. Pricing summer jobs need to reflect the summer temps.

If you think you're gonna *CLICK & DROP* and roll with it - you're kidding yourself. Wishful thinking.



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  #44  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
500 SF of holland stone in a day is a pretty good amount of work. Those 4x8 suck up time because they're small.


I am convinced that many contractors (or so called contractors) like to under estimate the scope of work. They see a nice job that they know they have a real strong shot at getting. So they play it down, because in their mind they want the job. They want the money, and they want to be able to say "we did a patio that used 21 pallets of pavers".

There is no such thing as simply "click and drop".

Like Xtreem said - there is measuring. There is stopping and making sure the joint lines are ALL straight. And there is STRAIGHTENING the joint lines because the probably are NOT straight!

Our biggest paver install was a 6000 sf driveway.

We have done a 3200 SF pool deck.

And we have multiple pool decks ranging from 1600 SF to 2200 SF.

The reason I'm stating this is because I'm trying to get the point across that I know my $h!t


Pool decks are even trickier. The pools are either rectanuglar or rounded (duh!) But......you have to maintain STRAIGHT and SQUARE joints on ALL SIDES of the pool! If the pool is NOT square - you will have MUCH trouble making straight and square joint lines.

And if the pool IS square - you'll still have trouble making straight and square joint lines. We have one pool deck that I assure you - the lines are perfect. Flawless. It probably took about 2 hours of measuring and measuring and double checking, staring at the ground, and coming up with a plan.

And we have other pool decks where we have had to use creativity to conceal the break in the flow of lines. The pools were rounded, making it nearly impossible to get the pavers to meet up perfect. But if you were to go to these jobs, even the best paver installers would have to really study the pavers to find where we made it work.

Hot summer temps are production killers. You're in blazing sun, on sand, with heat radiating off the sand and the pavers that are being put in place. Everyone is grumpy and doesnt want to be there. Making a lot of stops to drink water and to rest. Pricing summer jobs need to reflect the summer temps.

If you think you're gonna *CLICK & DROP* and roll with it - you're kidding yourself. Wishful thinking.



,
That last paragraph is soooo true. Our project was in record temps and surrounded by concrete buildings , no air movement, and the heat off the paver job was a production killer for at least a week's time. I'm sure we all have job's we look back on and wonder how did we do it...that is definetly one of mine
Steve
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:50 PM
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4 seasons lawn&land 4 seasons lawn&land is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
500 SF of holland stone in a day is a pretty good amount of work. Those 4x8 suck up time because they're small.


I am convinced that many contractors (or so called contractors) like to under estimate the scope of work. They see a nice job that they know they have a real strong shot at getting. So they play it down, because in their mind they want the job. They want the money, and they want to be able to say "we did a patio that used 21 pallets of pavers".

There is no such thing as simply "click and drop".

Like Xtreem said - there is measuring. There is stopping and making sure the joint lines are ALL straight. And there is STRAIGHTENING the joint lines because the probably are NOT straight!

Our biggest paver install was a 6000 sf driveway.

We have done a 3200 SF pool deck.

And we have multiple pool decks ranging from 1600 SF to 2200 SF.

The reason I'm stating this is because I'm trying to get the point across that I know my $h!t


Pool decks are even trickier. The pools are either rectanuglar or rounded (duh!) But......you have to maintain STRAIGHT and SQUARE joints on ALL SIDES of the pool! If the pool is NOT square - you will have MUCH trouble making straight and square joint lines.

And if the pool IS square - you'll still have trouble making straight and square joint lines. We have one pool deck that I assure you - the lines are perfect. Flawless. It probably took about 2 hours of measuring and measuring and double checking, staring at the ground, and coming up with a plan.

And we have other pool decks where we have had to use creativity to conceal the break in the flow of lines. The pools were rounded, making it nearly impossible to get the pavers to meet up perfect. But if you were to go to these jobs, even the best paver installers would have to really study the pavers to find where we made it work.

Hot summer temps are production killers. You're in blazing sun, on sand, with heat radiating off the sand and the pavers that are being put in place. Everyone is grumpy and doesnt want to be there. Making a lot of stops to drink water and to rest. Pricing summer jobs need to reflect the summer temps.

If you think you're gonna *CLICK & DROP* and roll with it - you're kidding yourself. Wishful thinking.



,

Do these straight and square joint lines still take as long if your doing a random pattern? How many man hours is a 2000 sf pool paver patio?
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  #46  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:58 PM
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alldayrj alldayrj is online now
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It can sometimes be harder with a random pattern since you need to break the line
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  #47  
Old 06-23-2012, 06:03 PM
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SVA_Concrete SVA_Concrete is offline
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i second that,

anyone can lay an "I" pattern.

random takes a good eye, much more thinking involved.
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  #48  
Old 06-23-2012, 06:29 PM
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AztlanLC AztlanLC is online now
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Also depends on type of pavers we just finshed a 1200 sqf. Patio with the new pavers from cambridge ledgstone xl, me and 3 guys laid down 900 sqf. In 6 hours one of the best times we have done and it wasn't rushing it at all.
A pool patio of 2000 sqf. With easy access, 6" base, geotextile, fullnose coping square pool would take my company 450 man hours to complete.
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  #49  
Old 06-23-2012, 07:31 PM
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alldayrj alldayrj is online now
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Those xls are wild right? Did you use a brick carrier type thing or by hand? Once theyre set dont try and move em lol
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  #50  
Old 06-23-2012, 09:47 PM
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4 seasons lawn&land 4 seasons lawn&land is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alldayrj View Post
I guess thats where time+material pricing trumps square footage pricing. more competitive bids. however, some jobs done on square footage can make tons of cash. aka if the guy who said 40k got the job. i've never seen pavers put down at 25/sf, or even 20 though. if you get 15 around here youre doing great.

your price works out to 5.5 for labor and materials, without brick. i think thats a little low. I do paver relays (pull old pavers, clean, add sand and re lay) for 3 to 4 a SF. once a customer bought all materials and just wanted me to install, I did that for 5/sf.
how did that job work out for you @ the 5 s/f mark?
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