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  #71  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:30 PM
muddywater muddywater is offline
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Prob bc they dont want to be flamed by the resident armchair general.

How will it fail? W 4" cynder blocks?

Common sense tells me when we accidentally back over a carson vb that has been notched for pipes w a 10000 pound skid steer that it will not fail w a mere 200 lb load, plus it has a 300 lb rating.

And when the pond supply store recommends using something of similar nature instead of spending $250+ with them for such a simple feature. It does make me think. Plus when members w more experience pm w other suggestions than yours... It makes me question your opinion.

What city on angies list? Not pensacola or northwest fl???
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  #72  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:58 PM
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tadpole tadpole is offline
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Prob bc they dont want to be flamed by the resident armchair general.

How will it fail? W 4" cynder blocks?

Common sense tells me when we accidentally back over a carson vb that has been notched for pipes w a 10000 pound skid steer that it will not fail w a mere 200 lb load, plus it has a 300 lb rating.

And when the pond supply store recommends using something of similar nature instead of spending $250+ with them for such a simple feature. It does make me think. Plus when members w more experience pm w other suggestions than yours... It makes me question your opinion.

What city on angies list? Not pensacola or northwest fl???
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Then do it your way. Why are you wasting your time trying to argue with me. I have given my answers. End of story!

BTW--Angie's List business member since May 2010. Location: Pensacola, Fl.
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  #73  
Old 06-23-2012, 06:08 PM
muddywater muddywater is offline
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Then do it your way. Why are you wasting your time trying to argue with me. I have given my answers. End of story!

BTW--Angie's List business member since May 2010. Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Just no reviews on your company... interesting.
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  #74  
Old 06-23-2012, 06:34 PM
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tadpole tadpole is offline
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
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  #75  
Old 06-23-2012, 08:13 PM
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1idejim 1idejim is online now
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Originally Posted by LeeRobinson View Post
As a dog owner, I have water buckets that hold about 20 gallons I would guess. The dogs don't just drink out of them, but down here in MS weather they get in them...splash around...and get out. They have held up for YEARS. What are they...

Cow "molasses buckets." They are much heavier duty than a 5 gallon bucket. Forget the kiddie pool idea...way too thin and are not built to last. The cow molasses buckets are very tough, thicker than a kiddie pool or 5 gallon bucket, and take UV light pretty good too. They are "double rimmed" but I use a skill saw to cut off the top rim to lower the top edge...loosing a few gallons of capacity.

I have since switched to stainless for a more professional appearance, but I used the cow buckets for probably 8 years...and the only time I had to replace them was when I had a dog that liked to chew for a year.



You can get them for free if you find someone that has cows.
i have a bunch of them, those that aren't steel are tore to pieces. the steel ones however are bent and smashed.

use the proper equipment for the task at hand. remember the 7 P's

tadpole has way too much knowledge to pass on his suggestion, i myself would use concrete as the base

Last edited by 1idejim; 06-23-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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  #76  
Old 06-23-2012, 08:58 PM
muddywater muddywater is offline
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Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
i have a bunch of them, those that aren't steel are tore to pieces. the steel ones however are bent and smashed.

use the proper equipment for the task at hand. remember the 7 P's

tadpole has way too much knowledge to pass on his suggestion, i myself would use concrete as the base
I have always respected your opinion. You have always been helpful and never degrading. At least that i can remember. And i have actually seen pics of your jobs!

I still dont understand the benefit of poured 4" concrete on virgin ground vs 4" solid cinder blocks on virgin ground. The ground here is bedrock 1' down
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  #77  
Old 06-23-2012, 10:23 PM
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1idejim 1idejim is online now
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I have always respected your opinion. You have always been helpful and never degrading. At least that i can remember. And i have actually seen pics of your jobs!

I still dont understand the benefit of poured 4" concrete on virgin ground vs 4" solid cinder blocks on virgin ground. The ground here is bedrock 1' down
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1. everything starts with a foundation, soil unless it is solid rock is not a foundation. BTW title 24 requires a barrier between rock and concrete over it.

in your case you could tie a small mat of #3 steel in 10 mins with $20 of material and labor. next you could job mix the concrete (thursday we job mixed 10 cyds) to keep the cost and the time frame down. place a pond specific vault (shell out the dough, that's what the customer is paying for)on the green concrete after you complete everything but the placement of the fixture. you can still complete the job in one day if you follow the rule of 7Ps.

2. KEY words of wisdom, be professional in every aspect of your business, the first sign of "hack" work (man i hate that word) and your client will start looking for loopholes. there are people that have 1 and only 1 job in higher levels of construction (they find things that aren't to standard and stop payments or backcharge the subs. this is a highly paid position somewhat akin to being a dentist, highly paid and generally hated). what seems like a waste of money to you can make the difference between having another satisfied customer and your worst nightmare.

3. your bottom line. if spending the money for the vault will make such a difference in your bid then you prolly don't want this job. is the job going to bring you more and hopefully higher paying jobs or not, if not then you prolly don't want this job. if you continue onward, do the job without using a manufactured vault and the customer who (might have more upstairs than you think) has investigated pond sites and construction literature from sellers and maybe other contractors (BTW this is a pond site) sees what's going on and decides not to pay or holds up some cash, wants a deal now. this scenario can get much worse with the courts and the state lic. board looking in.

4. you and i won't look at the same project the same way, everyone has their own idea of how a job should be built, what materials to use and so on. the one thing that we will prolly both agree on is that we want to stay in business a long time. that is a daily battle and your problem, my problem, tadpoles problems are the same, there is no second chance for a first impression, we are only as good as our latest job and we can turn from champ to chump in the blink of an eye. my advice...........don't blink.

i wish you the best in this and all of your endeavors
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  #78  
Old 06-24-2012, 12:54 AM
muddywater muddywater is offline
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Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
1. everything starts with a foundation, soil unless it is solid rock is not a foundation. BTW title 24 requires a barrier between rock and concrete over it.

Not sure I catch your drift, where does rock and concrete meet in my plan?

in your case you could tie a small mat of #3 steel in 10 mins with $20 of material and labor. next you could job mix the concrete (thursday we job mixed 10 cyds) to keep the cost and the time frame down. place a pond specific vault (shell out the dough, that's what the customer is paying for)on the green concrete after you complete everything but the placement of the fixture. you can still complete the job in one day if you follow the rule of 7Ps.

What is the difference between poured and a segmental pour (ie concrete blocks)? If the foundation settles the footer will crack. The sole purpose of the concrete is weight dispersion. Tadpole said a fountain basis would not need a footer because the weight was already dispersed. Which is it?

2. KEY words of wisdom, be professional in every aspect of your business, the first sign of "hack" work (man i hate that word) and your client will start looking for loopholes. there are people that have 1 and only 1 job in higher levels of construction (they find things that aren't to standard and stop payments or backcharge the subs. this is a highly paid position somewhat akin to being a dentist, highly paid and generally hated). what seems like a waste of money to you can make the difference between having another satisfied customer and your worst nightmare.

Yeah we have a high level of professionalism... prob why actually have a rating on angies list. Hack work? I am pretty sure the customer would lrather have a nice little stack stone wall that a fancy piece of plastic below grade.


3. your bottom line. if spending the money for the vault will make such a difference in your bid then you prolly don't want this job. is the job going to bring you more and hopefully higher paying jobs or not, if not then you prolly don't want this job. if you continue onward, do the job without using a manufactured vault and the customer who (might have more upstairs than you think) has investigated pond sites and construction literature from sellers and maybe other contractors (BTW this is a pond site) sees what's going on and decides not to pay or holds up some cash, wants a deal now. this scenario can get much worse with the courts and the state lic. board looking in.



Well if never did the work because I am not ingenuitive, I am pretty sure I would never get any referrals.

So what you are saying is that you cannot do a pond correctly without using a manufactored vault?

Court are you serious? State licensing board for water features? So you are assuming the pond will fail? How would it fail specifically? These generalizations are buullshit. Are you saying a 300lb rated carson valve would fail under 200lbs? Are you saying having a base of several 4" 6x18 blocks would not disperse the load of 200lbs on a valve box?


4. you and i won't look at the same project the same way, everyone has their own idea of how a job should be built, what materials to use and so on. the one thing that we will prolly both agree on is that we want to stay in business a long time. that is a daily battle and your problem, my problem, tadpoles problems are the same, there is no second chance for a first impression, we are only as good as our latest job and we can turn from champ to chump in the blink of an eye. my advice...........don't blink.

I agree first impressions are very important. Yeah anything I have ever done has been warrantied. We stand behind our work whether it is a $100,000 commercial landscape or 10 pallets of sod. I did a million dollars last year, and you don't get there by doing crap work. But I did get there by making $hit happen and thinking out of the box. I am actually surprised you have taken this stand against ingenuity since you are thinking out of the box everyday? Maybe tadpole is your buddy and you are just trying to not make him feel so bad?

Yeah I am actually a rated contractor on angies list with multiple ratings. Of which tad pole has none which really makes you wonder how you have no ratings, but do alot of pond work????

My customers love our service because I do diligent work researching projects to save clients money and give them an excellent value for the work, staying on budget, and standing behind our work. This project will be no different.





i wish you the best in this and all of your endeavors
...........................................................................

Last edited by muddywater; 06-24-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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  #79  
Old 06-24-2012, 02:20 AM
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1idejim 1idejim is online now
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...........................................................................
there will be no further reply to the above post as i refuse to lower myself to a pissing match with you MW. you don't want any advice other than your own. i was way wrong about you when i posted and pm'd you both.


BTW, my original post and pm were sincere but.......................................
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  #80  
Old 06-24-2012, 06:57 AM
muddywater muddywater is offline
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Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
there will be no further reply to the above post as i refuse to lower myself to a pissing match with you MW. you don't want any advice other than your own. i was way wrong about you when i posted and pm'd you both.


BTW, my original post and pm were sincere but.......................................
I don't look at it as a pissing match. I just expect you to back up your points.

Sorry you took it personal. From what i have read you are a very helpful genuine person.
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