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Old 06-29-2012, 01:06 PM
Talon Talon is offline
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Alternative To Fiesta

Hey what's going on?

I live in the Toronto area, and the only thing we're allowed spraying for weeds is Fiesta.

Now it's far more expensive then practical for spraying lawns.

I've heard of a couple companies using 'off brand' Fiesta. Essentially a no name liquid fertilizer with iron in it.

Anyone know of any suppliers of that product?
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:29 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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Nutrite.

But the PMRA , MOE and Neudorff are trying to catch companies using Unregistered products. That is except for the homeowner, they can still use anything they want, even 2,4-D. (They get it from the USA) The Ministry of the Environment does not inspect homeowners. Praise the Ontario Pesticide Ban.

Around here the lawn care guys with no licenses, no insurance are the ones that have the nicest customers lawns, they are not on the Ontario Landscape Trade Association Lists so the Enforcement Officers don't go after them.

The best part of it all is that in order to get FIESTA to work well, you need to use it off label at 6 to 8 applications a year.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:40 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayBay View Post

The best part of it all is that in order to get FIESTA to work well, you need to use it off label at 6 to 8 applications a year.
If that were true I would not have 90% repeat sales.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:53 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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The truths gets diluted when you still have access to cavalcade and can claim that Fiesta is the only product being applied. Try going without.

My comment is not based on boosting sales volumes and profit as other posters here. Come to Ontario and see for yourself.

Glendstone Memorial will be the showpiece for Alternative products, with the secret application of Cavalacade when nobody is watching.

Regrowth will occur within 2 weeks with Fiesta. Excessive usage of Fiesta dries out and thins lawns.

If you live in an area with no restrictions on 2,4-D or Cavalcade, don't waste your time with FIESTA. If you have customers who want Alternatives on their lawn for safety reasons, educate them that EPA, PMRA registered pesticides are SAFE to use for even Pregnant Women and Children to roll around in the grass.

Stand up to BEYOND PESTICIDES, Jay Feldman and Safelawns Paul Tukey.

90% Resale more than likely means that they need that much more product, 6-8 apps to get it to work.

Last edited by HayBay; 06-29-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:19 AM
scientia scientia is offline
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OP, your looking for FeHEDTA, not liquid fertilizer with iron.

haybay, Thanks for the honest evaluation, its refreshing reading on these boards.

Sure F.D.R would be turning in his grave knowing the amount of iron chelate
poisoning micro soil life and leaching heavy metals into the water table while ye boast.
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:14 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayBay View Post
The truths gets diluted when you still have access to cavalcade and can claim that Fiesta is the only product being applied. Try going without.

Who is making such a claim?

Glendstone Memorial will be the showpiece for Alternative products, with the secret application of Cavalacade when nobody is watching.

I seriously doubt that will happen.

Regrowth will occur within 2 weeks with Fiesta.
That depends on weed type and maturity of weed
Excessive usage of Fiesta dries out and thins lawns.
Excessive use of anything is a poor management practice.

If you live in an area with no restrictions on 2,4-D or Cavalcade, don't waste your time with FIESTA. If you have customers who want Alternatives on their lawn for safety reasons, educate them that EPA, PMRA registered pesticides are SAFE to use for even Pregnant Women and Children to roll around in the grass.
Luckily in the US we still have choices. And IMHO, the best choice is to greatly reduce the amount of pesticides currently being used especially where pregnant women and children may be exposed.

90% Resale more than likely means that they need that much more product, 6-8 apps to get it to work.
Actually the reports we get are that clients are happy with the results.
To be clear, I agree there are drawbacks with Fiesta. It is expensive and does not work as well chemical herbicides. Fiesta does provide advantages for those who would rather not or cannot use chemical herbicides, lower EPA toxicity rating, less impact on the environment and it beats hand pulling.

No matter which products the professional uses, they should be considered as part of sound cultural management practices.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:16 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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Why would people need to use a product like FIESTA or other products someone arbitrarily deems safer (or a best choice) than Conventional Pesticides on the market?????

The only reasons I can come up with is Political Decisions based on emotion, not facts.

If we stop the Enviro Whining, we can all get back to business and use products that work effectively, minimal repeat applications and with very little active ingredient required.

Here is what Peter Chan Director General of PMRA Health Canada says about Registered Pesticides, including ones for Lawns like 2,4-D.

Quote:
Canada is a world leader in regulating pesticides


The Daily News
Published: Wednesday, February 08, 2012
Re: 'Assertion on regulation of pesticides is disputed' (Daily News, Jan. 28)

In her letter, Liz Fox suggests Health Canada makes "arbitrary" decisions when it comes to pesticides.

In fact, Canada is a world leader in pesticide regulation, using modern scientific information and assessment methods that follow internationally accepted guidelines. Integrated approaches to testing and assessment offer the possibility of more efficient decisions on the human health and environmental risks of chemicals, including pesticides.


They can reduce the need for extensive animal testing, without compromising existing safety standards.

However, as the Council of Canadian Academies' comprehensive review points out, many of the tools needed for this approach are still under development and will require several years of testing and validation before they can be considered to be reliable enough to be fully adopted.

In the meantime, Health Canada has taken action to ensure that information on formulations is accurate and meets current standards. Formulants posing the greatest potential risk have already been virtually eliminated from pesticide products.

Peter Chan, director general, Health Evaluation Directorate Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Health Canada

Here is what Health Canada says about 2,4-D , pregnant women and children
Why do people not trained in this field suggest different???? I am guessing financial gain.

If the Government is not to be trusted, do we trust PAUL TUKEY? How about BEYOND PESTICIDES? Canadian Cancer Society??? Who do we trust?

Quote:
Is it safe to use the herbicide 2,4-D on my lawn?

Following extensive consultation and scientific review using the most current scientific methods, Health Canada has determined that 2,4-D meets Canada's strict health and safety standards, and as such can be used safely when label directions are followed. Health Canada's review concurs with the findings of regulators in other OECD countries, including the United States, European Union, New Zealand and the World Health Organization.
Quote:
Does Health Canada take pregnant women, children and other sensitive groups into consideration when evaluating pesticides?

Health Canada conducts specific risk assessments for sensitive groups including children and pregnant women, taking their unique physiological characteristics into account. The behaviours and play-habits of children, such as their body weight and hand-to-mouth contact while playing near treated areas are considered when determining their potential exposure, and worst-case exposure scenarios are taken into account when determining application rates.

Health Canada also carefully considers the health of workers exposed to pesticides. Label directions provide workers with information for safe use, including proper handling information and directions on personal protective equipment. Also, some provinces and territories require training and licensing for professional pesticide users.

Last edited by HayBay; 07-01-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:58 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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We trust gov't. becuz they tell us the Truth and the ONLY propaganda comes out of Iron Curtain Universities, becuz they are controlled by Communist Regimes, who push for the fabled excellence of Free Medical Care... Glyphosate is evil but radioactivity from Japan is fine...
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:19 AM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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If anyone is interested, I have a 2011 Technical Bulletin of FIESTA effectiveness on Dandelion at 56 DAT Ohio State University; Creeping Charlie at 57 DAT Guelph Turfgrass Institute; Oxalis at 38 DAT PAT2H Consulting. All with one or two applications only.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:07 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
If anyone is interested, I have a 2011 Technical Bulletin of FIESTA effectiveness on Dandelion at 56 DAT Ohio State University; Creeping Charlie at 57 DAT Guelph Turfgrass Institute; Oxalis at 38 DAT PAT2H Consulting. All with one or two applications only.
I'm interested, Barry. I'm more interested in long term effectiveness, as that's what seems to be lacking in the 2-4, D alternatives.
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