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  #21  
Old 08-20-2012, 04:53 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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From the makers of SumaGreen:

Your first treatment if you have never used SumaGreen Turf should be a double application to get the root systems growing faster and giving them the ability to reach more water with their longer and stronger root systems.

Continued applications should be every 6 weeks 2 oz per 1000 sq/ft for each treatment. No less than 4 treatments per year of SumaGreen Turf for best results. This will help you see grass development early the following year to help fight diseases in the Turf.

Benefits will not be instant like some fertilizers but will continue to improve the soil and the grass during the course of the treatments. SumaGreen can be used in conjunction with reduced rates of herbicides and insecticides.


I posted the above statements to make sure everyone understands how to use the product. It will take a while to work. Just add 1/8lb N at first for faster green up.

One of the primary claims is that our SumaGreen products with SumaGrow inside will mobilize and solubilize phosphorous (P) at both high and low soil pH environments and make it available for plant uptake.

The microbiology are able to unlock nutrients that are normally unavailable to plants. They have the studies to back this up.
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  #22  
Old 08-21-2012, 08:18 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Sounds like the microbes are doing what AMF is famed for doing...

Will this product mobilize more P if your lawn is already inhabitted with AM Fungus???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #23  
Old 08-21-2012, 03:44 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Sounds like the microbes are doing what AMF is famed for doing...

Will this product mobilize more P if your lawn is already inhabitted with AM Fungus???
I don't know the answer to that question.
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The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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  #24  
Old 08-22-2012, 08:09 AM
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Turf Dawg Turf Dawg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
From the makers of SumaGreen:

Your first treatment if you have never used SumaGreen Turf should be a double application to get the root systems growing faster and giving them the ability to reach more water with their longer and stronger root systems.

Continued applications should be every 6 weeks 2 oz per 1000 sq/ft for each treatment. No less than 4 treatments per year of SumaGreen Turf for best results. This will help you see grass development early the following year to help fight diseases in the Turf.

Benefits will not be instant like some fertilizers but will continue to improve the soil and the grass during the course of the treatments. SumaGreen can be used in conjunction with reduced rates of herbicides and insecticides.


I posted the above statements to make sure everyone understands how to use the product. It will take a while to work. Just add 1/8lb N at first for faster green up.

One of the primary claims is that our SumaGreen products with SumaGrow inside will mobilize and solubilize phosphorous (P) at both high and low soil pH environments and make it available for plant uptake.

The microbiology are able to unlock nutrients that are normally unavailable to plants. They have the studies to back this up.
The "unlocking" ability is what I am interested in. Our soils seem to lock up P, K, Fe, ect....
On some of my St Augustine lawns I give a dose of Sulfur to for deeper green color.
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  #25  
Old 08-22-2012, 08:33 AM
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DUSTYCEDAR DUSTYCEDAR is offline
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i need pics to keep up with the story
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  #26  
Old 08-22-2012, 08:52 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Funny thing is, anyone can post a picture and make any claims they want. We've all been subjected to nonsensical political ads lately.
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2012, 06:32 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turf Dawg View Post
The "unlocking" ability is what I am interested in. Our soils seem to lock up P, K, Fe, ect....
On some of my St Augustine lawns I give a dose of Sulfur to for deeper green color.
We used to have some great discussions about various functions of the microbes in the soil doing virtually every step of every process we've become aware of... microbes working to supply various nutrients in exchange for carbon and the plant providing particular feeds for particular microbes to recieve a particular nutrient in return... pH is also controlled at the molecular level around roothairs...

It would seem that in light of all of this, having an active microbrial soil with plenty of airy OM would be the best all around place to start in unlocking various elements in the soil...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2012, 12:11 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
We used to have some great discussions about various functions of the microbes in the soil doing virtually every step of every process we've become aware of... microbes working to supply various nutrients in exchange for carbon and the plant providing particular feeds for particular microbes to recieve a particular nutrient in return... pH is also controlled at the molecular level around roothairs...

It would seem that in light of all of this, having an active microbrial soil with plenty of airy OM would be the best all around place to start in unlocking various elements in the soil...
I hear a lot about products claiming to enhance soil microbes and "restore tired soils," like SumaGreen.

But, I can't find any studies that prove their claims. I've met with the owners of SumaGrow (makers of SumaGreen) many times and they have still not provided one scientific study to back up their claims. They like to show me a lot of corn and soybean pictures, but they have no turf or lawn data and no scientific research.

For a better understanding of soil microbiology and how SumaGreen-type products influence turf systems, watch this video:

http://webcast.usga.org/usga/zuberer_microbes.wmv

It's from Dr. David Zuberer, a soil microbiologist from Texas A&M. He lends a lot of insight into all the claims that these new microbial products are making.
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  #29  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:31 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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IMO, if you don't have the organic matter, a liquid program backed up with 1/8lb of N is not enough. As much as we try and get away with liquid programs, nothing beats compost, chicken poo or anything else that adds OM to the soil.

I've seen a lot of these products come out over the years, only to fade out a short time afterwards.
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2012, 09:27 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
IMO, if you don't have the organic matter, a liquid program backed up with 1/8lb of N is not enough. As much as we try and get away with liquid programs, nothing beats compost, chicken poo or anything else that adds OM to the soil.

I've seen a lot of these products come out over the years, only to fade out a short time afterwards.
I agree... individual products with their individual claims, do not educate us about how things are happening at the root hairs where all the action is... adequate OM is the only base to work from,,, IMO...

The basic critical considerations about soil hasn't been wrong throughout my life-time... things like CEC, air/water ratio, drainage, or in other words, Tilth...

So in the evaluation of a product, one must first ask him/her-self, "Is this product working with the tilth, improving the tilth, short-circuitting the tilth or making claims in-spite of the tilth???"
Then secondly, "Does this product have the capacity to function outside the normal parameters of tilth???"
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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