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Old 08-23-2012, 02:50 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Right, but again, underlying issues. Dwarf varieties, mainly Seville tends to be thatchy from too much nitrogen over it's life. Dwarf varieties tend to have a thatch layer of dead and live stolins. This is already an inherent problem for stolins with roots exposed to the air, they tend to struggle to exist. All the webworms do is expose this issue which will also occur from heavy frost. These same areas will have issues webworms or not. Thatch is why these areas don't recover easily not severe webworms. Armyworms mabe, but not webworms.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:14 AM
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Laundry detergents in the US no longer contain P...it was banned.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
Right, but again, underlying issues. Dwarf varieties, mainly Seville tends to be thatchy from too much nitrogen over it's life. Dwarf varieties tend to have a thatch layer of dead and live stolins. This is already an inherent problem for stolins with roots exposed to the air, they tend to struggle to exist. All the webworms do is expose this issue which will also occur from heavy frost. These same areas will have issues webworms or not. Thatch is why these areas don't recover easily not severe webworms. Armyworms mabe, but not webworms.
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Turf,

first welcome to the forum. Second I do not doubt your guidance as you appear to understand this stuff better than the common lawn guy like me. However I have yet to see a PCO driving around town with a bucket of tide on the back of their truck.
You concern over getting it into the thatch - would that not be covered with a surfactant added to the bifen. Just asking because this is the most common approach I see to webworms over the years. Besides, have you seen how damn expensive tide has become
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  #14  
Old 08-23-2012, 07:43 AM
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Poet, whats with the busting balls of my customers? No need for the antics, just had a friendly question. Web worms are pretty easy to spot even for a customer. Seeing as I am not a PCO, as I stated earlier I don't know what to suggest, hence why I asked. I didn't know if just telling them to put down a granular bug product would cover it or if it needed something specific. Just needed some advice.
No ball busting really just a state of mind. Customer that think they can do it all usually fail, not always but a good enough time, but then they expect you are the lawn guy to have all the answers....so unless your are a card holder PCO too..the chances your information is maybe or may not be correct. Why waste your time with customers asking questions that is not relative to what you are hire to due. I hate customers who ask me question not related to what I do. Lots of times in the past I find these type of customers feel they know more than you anyway...but will waste your time asking questions only to never take your advice. You know what I am saying. If they want advice on subject like this, they should hire a PCO who is qualified. If they want mediocre advice that may or may not be true...send them here to LS.
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If you aspire to a six-figure income, don't get advice from someone making $18,000 a year!
  #15  
Old 08-23-2012, 08:12 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Tide would be bad, too much fragrant. That's why I suggested arm & hammer. Won't stress the turf. It is also a natural surfactant. You would see a very experienced PCO use this method, ever hear of BMP. If so do you understand it. Just saying bifenthrin for catts is a low experience suggestion. Something like M - PEDE will perform much better. Not trying to get on anybodys bad side but there is probably a general belief here you have to wait 2 weeks to sod after applying glyphosphate.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:52 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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You want to bust my ball's hey I like challenges. Just some background (1988-1991 tru-green tech before chemlawn in picture. Bad merger. 1991-1992 took care of Peabody hotel for Ground Control greatest full service company of all time. 1992-1997 field working opps manager, lead tech for large full service providers. 1997-2010 full blown LESCO GUY.2010-current, consultant. All during this practicing BMP and reporting to orange county.) Just want to open minds. Sometimes unorthodox works. Just need enough experience to know to suggest. Me wana play not fight.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:20 AM
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How exactly do you report Laundry Detergent on a Orange County pest application record?
  #18  
Old 08-23-2012, 12:21 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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There is no reason. It's not a registered pesticide or every time someone washed their vehicle's and the detergent of choice went into the water system or in the soil, if washed on non-cement we would have to report it. thank god. Listen if you understand how resistance to pesticides evolves it would only be logical to let home owners use something that if poorly applied will not add to another molecule becoming useless. I read in another thread an analogy. " Why should I have to have license to apply insecticides, I don't need to be a licensed plumber to fix the plumbing in my house." Bad analogy! successful pesticide applications require a knowledge of science. Instead of a plumber should have used a DR. I'm not a human doctor but I would only use a licensed DR to perform medical aid I would not prescribe medicine for which I don't understand the AI.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
There is no reason. It's not a registered pesticide or every time someone washed their vehicle's and the detergent of choice went into the water system or in the soil, if washed on non-cement we would have to report it. thank god. Listen if you understand how resistance to pesticides evolves it would only be logical to let home owners use something that if poorly applied will not add to another molecule becoming useless. I read in another thread an analogy. " Why should I have to have license to apply insecticides, I don't need to be a licensed plumber to fix the plumbing in my house." Bad analogy! successful pesticide applications require a knowledge of science. Instead of a plumber should have used a DR. I'm not a human doctor but I would only use a licensed DR to perform medical aid I would not prescribe medicine for which I don't understand the AI.
HO can do a lot of things but as a contractor, I can not put down detergent as a pest control agent.

The EPA regulates such things if you make the claim it will control pest. Also, everything in the mix has to be listed if a pest control application is made even if you are not using a registered product.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:35 PM
bugsNbows bugsNbows is offline
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I, as a certified operator won't be putting down soap to control TSW (ELS comments above are correct IMO). If Joe homeowner wants to do that it's his business. Our company will indeed apply Bifen (or other labeled products) to manage TSW numbers when required. Likely our customers would be more satisfied with that.

TurfMD 101- Exoskeleton? Stolons? If you want to be the expert fine, how about utilizing correct terminology / spelling? For the record: I'm state certified in all four categories since June 1978. I have 3 degrees (2 undergraduate, 1 Graduate), over 40 years experience, owned my own PC business, Manager at WDW in Pest Management for 11 years, Extension Agent IFAS in South Florida, written and published articles and delivered countless programs. Ever heard of spell check? Now, I'm not disputing everything you said BUT you're not the only knowledgeable person here. You may wish to keep that in mind. Good day Sir.
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