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  #51  
Old 08-27-2012, 08:00 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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FS. Thanks for leaving us arena $$$$$$.
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  #52  
Old 08-27-2012, 08:33 AM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
Different food for thought. You guys know me by know (DA) . Get it... OK HERE GOES.

This guy who screwed up. Seems to me that this guy doesn't know arithmetic, so he won't be successful at calibration. Like bucket checking 101. If you do not deliver a lethal dose to a target pest. That pest is given the opportunity to build resistance. See the snake handler, who gets bit by a snake and survives has the chance to build resistance. The handler who gets bit and dies does not get that same chance. "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE™". But rebounding from an attack does. Say the first day bifenthrin hit the street. This guy gets some. Seems to me ... he will probably missapp his treatment. You know, because he screwed up! Well the chinch don't die, it's been over 15 days. Haven't seen 'em. So the building blocks of resistance start to form. I don't believe over application causes resistance. Over application is ok as long as you KILL WHAT YOUR TRYING TO KILL! . Again "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE. IT'S DEAD ™". Now over application is not my target promotion here. Killing your target pest is. Resistance started it's building blocks day one when bifen hit the streets. I don't believe day 2 or 8 or day 289 after bifen hit the street that over application had already begun. I believe that takes a while longer and by the time it has any effect. Well, miss application has taken center stage and proudly owns it. All because this guy let another guy illegally use his ticket. Poor decision IMO. I got alot of crap for suggesting powder laundry detergent (by the way. no resistance to soap) . Let's see how this gets discussed shall we? Come on I know you wanna drill me.
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Couple of things, He let the guy use his ticket to be an apprentice but the guy was doing side jobs thus screwing Ric. Ric went in and made it right even though his company did not get the money.

We understand resistance and the pesticde treadmill, most of us do. The question was how a fungicide caused insect Resistance.
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  #53  
Old 08-27-2012, 08:47 AM
ReddensLawnCare ReddensLawnCare is offline
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Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
Different food for thought. You guys know me by know (DA) . Get it... OK HERE GOES.

This guy who screwed up. Seems to me that this guy doesn't know arithmetic, so he won't be successful at calibration. Like bucket checking 101. If you do not deliver a lethal dose to a target pest. That pest is given the opportunity to build resistance. See the snake handler, who gets bit by a snake and survives has the chance to build resistance. The handler who gets bit and dies does not get that same chance. "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE™". But rebounding from an attack does. Say the first day bifenthrin hit the street. This guy gets some. Seems to me ... he will probably missapp his treatment. You know, because he screwed up! Well the chinch don't die, it's been over 15 days. Haven't seen 'em. So the building blocks of resistance start to form. I don't believe over application causes resistance. Over application is ok as long as you KILL WHAT YOUR TRYING TO KILL! . Again "DEAD DOESN'T BUILD RESISTANCE. IT'S DEAD ™". Now over application is not my target promotion here. Killing your target pest is. Resistance started it's building blocks day one when bifen hit the streets. I don't believe day 2 or 8 or day 289 after bifen hit the street that over application had already begun. I believe that takes a while longer and by the time it has any effect. Well, miss application has taken center stage and proudly owns it. All because this guy let another guy illegally use his ticket. Poor decision IMO. I got alot of crap for suggesting powder laundry detergent (by the way. no resistance to soap) . Let's see how this gets discussed shall we? Come on I know you wanna drill me.
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That didn't answer my question at all?
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  #54  
Old 08-27-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
Couple of things, He let the guy use his ticket to be an apprentice but the guy was doing side jobs thus screwing Ric. Ric went in and made it right even though his company did not get the money.

We understand resistance and the pesticde treadmill, most of us do. The question was how a fungicide caused insect Resistance.
Turfmd101

The person in question is no dummy by any means or I wouldn't have gotten together with them. What they had was Gray Leaf spot and they didn't have the Equipment to spray a Fungicide.

This individual was far better educated on Pesticides than the average TG/CL Newbie and was already a Limited License holder. If I was adding to pesticide Resistances by giving them a Spray Card then every New Card Holder is also adding to Pesticide Resistances.

I was wrong for posting my personal gripes about networking gone bad. Every side has their story and I am sure this person has there complaints about me that might be well founded.

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  #55  
Old 08-27-2012, 12:54 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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I guess I read into what Ric said too much. Its just typically when an apprentice screws up its because they burn something and not because they cause a cultural problem that requires fungicide. All pesticides have the ability to lose their effectiveness , and this apprentice will more likely be applying the three primary ones. Fungicide does not cause insect resistance. Someone who knows more about labels and applications than horticulture causes resistance IMO. I would not help someone by letting them operate under my license that did not share most of the same understandings I have for what I do. Anyone can try to practice horticulture, but not everyone carries the ability to practice it responsibly or understand it properly . IMO, anyone who would be working under a pest license and require another tech. to correct their screw up and not know themselves they need T-Storm. Or not know how to correct their situation, passed, to easily the requirements needed to hold the ticket he is working under. TEACH HIM HORTICULTURE. IMO. I'm probably to critical. I just think it should not be so easy to get a card pulled for pesticide use by someone who will be aiding and abetting the loss of functional pesticides. I feel if I would have interviewed this tech I would have seen the signs. My daughter wants to drive now she is 17. Her twin brother , no problem , he gets it. My daughter she does not get it. Even though she is of age and eligible, no license yet not till she is ready. That's the point, she won't know when she is ready I will. I mean what the hell could of gone on that you needed to treat with a systemic contact fungicide anyway. Is that fungicide needed because he had BP and put down AS? Just doesn't sound as if he is ready to ticket hold and those guys ruin things for the guys who are ready. EX;this guy will aid in building resistance to pesticides which kinda includes fungicides.
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  #56  
Old 08-27-2012, 01:49 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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I'm sorry to continually sound like a know-it-all. I hear you. but that's my point about the situation. Gray Leaf spot is going to be the most common fungi problem a tech deals with, that is def 101 kind of fungi. If gray leaf spot is able to get to the point of T-Storm on someone, that's exactly the the kind of low experience i am worried about. If this person doesn't know indian hawthorne "will get red leaf spot" and when they are wet and shady it will never go away in that situation and there is no treatable fungicide for it that's credible and it is only minimized correctly through proper cultural practices. IMO this person is not ready yet. I don't think everyone needs this dialect but it directly effects product usage and abuseage. which leads to the resistance thingy.
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  #57  
Old 08-27-2012, 03:23 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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I forgot the part about him not having the equipment. Let's look it over. He picked up an account 20,000 square. He doesn't have a backpack, because thats equipment . GLF starts slow. Is more often effecting lower, poorly mowed turfgrass especially when it's this wet. If you have 20,000 square loaded up. Better try to grow it out because as bad as it is even T-Storm will struggle. You need to treat!!! But T-Storm? I'm sorry but letting it get to "that" level of aid. Requires less than someone well enough experienced let alone someone with a card. IMO. Yea he may know alot about pesticides. Just not enough about horticulture. For if he did simple GLS could not be at the level you describe.
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  #58  
Old 08-27-2012, 06:11 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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This individual was far better educated on Pesticides than the average TG/CL Newbie and was already a Limited License holder. If I was adding to pesticide Resistances by giving them a Spray Card then every New Card Holder is also adding to Pesticide Resistances


Yes very much. But not 100%.

possible alternative; root system
St. Aug typically handles GLS. Even if severe.
At the stage described. Its most likely has a dis functional root system.
Great as T-Storm is, may not help with systemic action.
2 - 3 apps K-Mag at .5 lb/1000sf.
give St. Aug back the tools it needs to fight.


possible alternative; foliage
cheap fungicide. all fungicides carry GLS, its too common.
at your described melt out. St. Aug is doing its job and forcing senescence to rid it self of the pest spores.
even rarely at this stage will the plant damage, but it will appear different, but that much foliage melt looks as though the plant is suffering."its ugly".
sounds like soon enough there will be no more foliage to attack. and populations will decline naturally.

sept, oct, & nov are St. Aug best time to recover as the fall flush of new foliage begins.
but keep up the potassium because IMO. that will defeat this pest superior to fungicides.

plus your cost could have been 20% to 30% cheaper.i know he is lacking equipment but a spreader for K-Mag he doesn't have that either.

out of control for an experienced person are two things that should not be in the same sentence.

Last edited by turfmd101; 08-27-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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  #59  
Old 08-27-2012, 07:25 PM
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Landscape Poet Landscape Poet is online now
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turfmd

do not take offense to this but you are making a lot of assumptions about the property without having been there and knowing the facts. Ric is a experienced applicator and has proved himself to have a great wealth of knowledge on this board. I am assuming that his choice of fungicides was for a reason and that if he states the original applicator has good knowledge that it is so. No matter the applicators experience everyone makes a mistake here or there especially when they first get started I am assuming. Nobody knows it all and most likely experience failure of some sort along the way.
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  #60  
Old 08-27-2012, 08:15 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Heard.

only 1 thing causes GLS no matter where St. Aug lives. It's environmental conditions.
same fungi same host. not dictated by the landscape. GLS develops due to environmental conditions any day any time that its existence is favored environmentally.
add excess N & H2O on top of stress and poof spores are born like magic.
no offense taken thanks for the advice.
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