Who has used & tested SumaGreen besides...

[replenish&subdue]

Thanks,glad to have you on board to give your input.

[phasthound]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

This doesn't debunk organics, but it does reinforce my question about: "What is the environment that we need for these microbes to flourish in???"

All he is saying is that,,, you can add whatever you want,,, but the microbes that thrive there are going to thrive until that environment changes...

The smart way to go is obviously to create the environment that 'beneficials' can thrive in...

Build It And They Will Come...

Add organic matter, known beneficial microbes and irrigate properly. The organic matter & water provide the raw materials beneficials need. The beneficials will take an active role in improving their environment. As they increase their numbers they will compete better against the pathogens and recycle more nutrients. It's not magic, it's a process.

[coolluv]

Originally Posted by phasthound

Add organic matter, known beneficial microbes and irrigate properly. The organic matter & water provide the raw materials beneficials need. The beneficials will take an active role in improving their environment. As they increase their numbers they will compete better against the pathogens and recycle more nutrients. It's not magic, it's a process.

Thank you for your feedback as I was hoping you would reply.

Do you think it is possible to build the organics in the soil of poor soil lawns with the application of products like Sumagreen and Screemin Green? So far I'm really happy with the results of Screemin Green.

I have some customers that would not topdress because of the cost associated with topdressing and most are just happy not to have weeds. But I want their lawn to be the nicest it can be. I deal mostly with Bermuda and some Zoysia and a little Fescue for good measure but 90% of the lawns are Bermuda.

I have some really good lawns with high organic matter and I have some that I just took on that have very little organic matter. I used Screemin Green on some of my customers lawns and on my own. The ones with good organics showed a really great response, including my own.

Not that they looked bad before, but they really have a nice deep dark green and even my own lawn looks healthier. I even had my neighbors compliment my lawn, and other LCO's that I'm friends with. I also noticed that the Bermuda after I cut it doesn't get browned out and stays a nice dark green. It seems to recover fast and is growing better than ever. Those who deal with Bermuda know what I'm talking about.

I have turned around some ugly lawns that were half weeds and half Bermuda with a lot of bare spots with a conventional treatment plan and aeration. I was hoping to be able to build the soil slowly but faster than just mulching the lawn and my conventional treatments.

Ive heard some say the the use of products like Sumagreen would soften the soil and reduce compaction, which is a severe problem where I'm at. Even when you aerate. I like the idea of building the soil but in most cases topdressing is not going to happen.

I didn't tell my customers that I was applying anything different, it was basically an experiment for my own sake.

I think organics are going to be more widely used and I don't want to be left behind. But I also do not have money to waste. I appreciate your feed back Phasthound and others like Skipster, Kiril, Smallaxe and others as I respect your opinions and knowledge. You guys are way ahead of me.


Dave...

[Smallaxe]

I was referring to the the point that the video made about adding 2 different comunittees of microbes to the same soil and ending up with one comunittee of microbes at the end of the day...

Lesson is: that microbes don't change the soil, but rather the soil determines which microbes will grow there...

the other example of the same lesson is one communittee of microbes in 2 different soils and ending up with 2 different comunittees of microbes, when all is said and done...

My comment about that point in the video was in direct response to the "Debunk Organics" comment in the hopes that the level of discussion would be elevated beyond, "... not magic."

[coolluv]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

I was referring to the the point that the video made about adding 2 different comunittees of microbes to the same soil and ending up with one comunittee of microbes at the end of the day...

Lesson is: that microbes don't change the soil, but rather the soil determines which microbes will grow there...

the other example of the same lesson is one communittee of microbes in 2 different soils and ending up with 2 different comunittees of microbes, when all is said and done...

My comment about that point in the video was in direct response to the "Debunk Organics" comment in the hopes that the level of discussion would be elevated beyond, "... not magic."

My comment on Debunk Organics was referring to beyond adding a good topdressing mix....the other stuff is just a waste of money. No benefit. According to the good doctor. I know adding Organics is beneficial and is the best course of action..but what if that is not possible due to customer resistance due to cost?

Aeration, water, a good organic base is essential. But if topdressing is not possible can you achieve better results with products like Sumagreen and Screemin Green over traditional fert programs?

Dave...

[phasthound]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

I was referring to the the point that the video made about adding 2 different comunittees of microbes to the same soil and ending up with one comunittee of microbes at the end of the day...

Lesson is: that microbes don't change the soil, but rather the soil determines which microbes will grow there...

the other example of the same lesson is one communittee of microbes in 2 different soils and ending up with 2 different comunittees of microbes, when all is said and done...

My comment about that point in the video was in direct response to the "Debunk Organics" comment in the hopes that the level of discussion would be elevated beyond, "... not magic."

I know what you were referring to Axe. My response was based on my experience in the field and that I disagree with Dr. Z's two "lessons". My reference to magic was a tongue in cheek response to his comment about "The mind is a great thing" when debunking Homeopathy.

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by coolluv

My comment on Debunk Organics was referring to beyond adding a good topdressing mix....the other stuff is just a waste of money. No benefit. According to the good doctor. I know adding Organics is beneficial and is the best course of action..but what if that is not possible due to customer resistance due to cost?

Aeration, water, a good organic base is essential. But if topdressing is not possible can you achieve better results with products like Sumagreen and Screemin Green over traditional fert programs?

Dave...

Isn't that what the whole point is all about??? Whether you're actually adding OM to the soil or are you just adding microbes to the soil... Milorganite is actual OM and when microbes feed on it,,, it is then organic fertilizer... Fish Emulsion is organic material that microbes will feed on... Are these products real OM??? that's the only question that needs to be answered...

BTW,,, Does it do any good to add microbes to mineral soil??? That was the point of the video...

[NattyLawn]

Originally Posted by coolluv

Thank you for your feedback as I was hoping you would reply.

Do you think it is possible to build the organics in the soil of poor soil lawns with the application of products like Sumagreen and Screemin Green?

Dave...

Sumagreen won't build organic matter. Screamin Green will, albeit very slowly. That's more of a organic based product, as it contains more N and less OM than other ferts offered in the NP line. If you have some lawns with very low organic matter, try the 6-2-4 at 12-15lbs per k or 4-3-1 at 20lbs per k.

[coolluv]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

Isn't that what the whole point is all about??? Whether you're actually adding OM to the soil or are you just adding microbes to the soil... Milorganite is actual OM and when microbes feed on it,,, it is then organic fertilizer... Fish Emulsion is organic material that microbes will feed on... Are these products real OM??? that's the only question that needs to be answered...

BTW,,, Does it do any good to add microbes to mineral soil??? That was the point of the video...

According to the good doctor, adding products like Sumagreen to any soil type to add microbes has no benefit. Plus the way he made it sound it would be like adding a gallon of red dye to the ocean and expecting it to turn it red. Not going to happen.

Dave...

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by NattyLawn

Sumagreen won't build organic matter. Screamin Green will, albeit very slowly. That's more of a organic based product, as it contains more N and less OM than other ferts offered in the NP line. If you have some lawns with very low organic matter, try the 6-2-4 at 12-15lbs per k or 4-3-1 at 20lbs per k.

What OM does Screamin' Green have???