Bermuda Fall/Winter Pre Emergent

[Skipster]

I've known John Boyd for a long time. He lives in central AR and works out of the Little Rock extension office. He's a great weed scientist. His recommendations aren't necessarily wrong, but I do notice a lot of simazine recommendatiosn coming out of his office. Maybe it's b/c simazine is so cheap and has both PRE and POST activity tht he recommends it to LCOs as a simple 2-for-1 product, but I just don't see the control out of it that I would like. Besides, the label restrictions make it hard for me to use it.

Wilson, I will find you some better references shortly, but this article (written by Fred Yelverton of NCSU) talks abotu Poa germinating in late summer:

http://grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_m..._winter_weeds/

NCSU recommends PRE for Poa should be applied no later than Sept 15 for most of NC. I would certainly agree. PRE needs to be down before germination in order to work. Remember, germination is NOT emergence -- germination usually happens weeks or months before you can see it.

[grassmasterswilson]

Skip - I'm not arguing with you. I've found that an early November application holds me over til spring pre. I have seen very little spring breakthroughs or fall patches of poa during this time. What works for me might not work for others.

With that being said it all depends on the weather. Some years it can be earlier if the temps are different.

Here is an article in 2009 saying mid november for single app and october and december with split apps. You will also not this was an oct 2009 article and they recommend applying the pre asap. All three authors are still at the local university and a big part of the turf research.

http://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/Weeds/....aspx#AL004918

Wonder if a problem comes with multilple apps of prodiamine in September for winter annuals and then spring split apps in Feb and April?

[ted putnam]

I've had excellent results using Simazine. I have always used a higher rate though based on discussions with Dr. Boyd. The key part of the word Pre-emergent is "Pre". Timing is critical. I start early using Barricade and do not usually start using the Simazine until Oct 1 even though the label states that it can be used after Sept 1. I've had great results the last couple of years starting earlier. I beat the cool season weeds including the Annual Bluegrass and I also beat the leaves falling from trees.

If you do have an outbreak of Poa later in the season or early next spring, Certainty is labeled for its control and it does work.

The only time I use Manor in the Fall is for wild onion control. It provides excellent control and if you spike it with 3-way, you'll get quicker knockdown in cooler temps.

[ArTurf]

Originally Posted by ted putnam

I've had excellent results using Simazine. I have always used a higher rate though based on discussions with Dr. Boyd. The key part of the word Pre-emergent is "Pre". Timing is critical. I start early using Barricade and do not usually start using the Simazine until Oct 1 even though the label states that it can be used after Sept 1. I've had great results the last couple of years starting earlier. I beat the cool season weeds including the Annual Bluegrass and I also beat the leaves falling from trees.

If you do have an outbreak of Poa later in the season or early next spring, Certainty is labeled for its control and it does work.

The only time I use Manor in the Fall is for wild onion control. It provides excellent control and if you spike it with 3-way, you'll get quicker knockdown in cooler temps.

Do you get much yellowing with Simazine? The label warns of yellowing on non-dormant bermuda & zoysia. I normally don't apply til Nov but think I would like to start early to avoid the leaves like you mentioned. And it would be nice to be caught up before deer season.

[ted putnam]

I've never noticed the yellowing for the most part. I add chelated iron to the mix though. Just enough to keep them green until first frost. Usually, that's around the first week of November. I like getting them done early so I can do some deer hunting with less worries. I hunt in Monticello and some right around my house as well. The goal for us is to have the pre out by November 1st. We finish up our last app around mid December and pittle around the shop until Christmas.

[Turf Dawg]

Originally Posted by Skipster

I've known John Boyd for a long time. He lives in central AR and works out of the Little Rock extension office. He's a great weed scientist. His recommendations aren't necessarily wrong, but I do notice a lot of simazine recommendatiosn coming out of his office. Maybe it's b/c simazine is so cheap and has both PRE and POST activity tht he recommends it to LCOs as a simple 2-for-1 product, but I just don't see the control out of it that I would like. Besides, the label restrictions make it hard for me to use it.

Wilson, I will find you some better references shortly, but this article (written by Fred Yelverton of NCSU) talks abotu Poa germinating in late summer:

http://grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_m..._winter_weeds/

NCSU recommends PRE for Poa should be applied no later than Sept 15 for most of NC. I would certainly agree. PRE needs to be down before germination in order to work. Remember, germination is NOT emergence -- germination usually happens weeks or months before you can see it.

The pre and post on early weeds is why I like Simazine. I have not started yet mainly because of time [customers calling though] but I like for the Poa and Rescuegrass to start germinating so the Simazine can get them with the Speedzone getting the broadleaves. Since the Simazine doesn't last as long I like to do it later, but it does not take me weeks or months to do a round like some of you. The Simazine label states for Poa apply after Oct 1 but it doesn't say what area.

[ArTurf]

Originally Posted by ted putnam

I've never noticed the yellowing for the most part. I add chelated iron to the mix though. Just enough to keep them green until first frost. Usually, that's around the first week of November. I like getting them done early so I can do some deer hunting with less worries. I hunt in Monticello and some right around my house as well. The goal for us is to have the pre out by November 1st. We finish up our last app around mid December and pittle around the shop until Christmas.

What iron product do you use?

[ArTurf]

Originally Posted by ted putnam

I've never noticed the yellowing for the most part. I add chelated iron to the mix though. Just enough to keep them green until first frost. Usually, that's around the first week of November. I like getting them done early so I can do some deer hunting with less worries. I hunt in Monticello and some right around my house as well. The goal for us is to have the pre out by November 1st. We finish up our last app around mid December and pittle around the shop until Christmas.

My son went to college at Monticello (he is at Fayetteville now) and we used to duck hunt in the area alot a few years back. Do you have family in that area?

[ted putnam]

Originally Posted by ArTurf

My son went to college at Monticello (he is at Fayetteville now) and we used to duck hunt in the area alot a few years back. Do you have family in that area?

My daughter just started at Fayetteville this year. No, I don't have any family around Monticello. I'm just in a hunting lease with a couple of buddies.

I am currently using Ferromec AC. I just finished up a 55gal of Lesco Iron Plus.

The Ferromec seems to be more refined.