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  #31  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:54 AM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Keep in mind that this area is a couple months ahead of CentroWisco, so the definitions of Winter and Early Spring are @ different months... enjoy...

http://turfdisease.osu.edu/turf-dise...-fertilization

"... root and shoot activity and plant respiration rates increase during the late winter and early spring, plant carbohydrate content generally decreases. This decline may be quite significant when the turf receives an early season (February-April) nitrogen application, as compared to grass that has not been fertilized since the previous fall. The rapid decline occurs because carbohydrates are needed to support the increased shoot growth resulting from nitrogen applications made early in the season. Conversely, the more slowly-growing, late-season-fertilized turfgrass plants may possess a larger carbohydrate pool during the spring period. As will be discussed later, the process of spring root production can benefit from this greater concentration of carbohydrates from a late-season application. ...

...The true advantage that late-season fertilization provides to turfgrass root growth is realized during the following spring. It has been shown that the root growth of turf fertilized during the late-winter/early spring declines soon after nitrogen application (3 & 5). Conversely, turf fertilized using the late- season concept becomes green early and rapidly, without the need for an early spring nitrogen application, and root growth continues at a maximum rate. It appears that the excessive shoot growth encouraged by early spring nitrogen applications utilizes carbohydrates that may otherwise be used for growing roots ..."


It would actually be informative to read that entire section about root growth, as I only highlighted the relevant point...
I'm not sure your article is relevant to this discussion. No one here is talking about spring applications. We're all talking about fall applications. You said in your first post that fall applications should be timed such the N is used and depleted before winter. The article you linked suggests that fall applications should be made late enough that the N is NOT depleted before winter and carries over until spring, so that the nutrients are present without needing a spring application.

You just linked to an article that said what I already said and what most of the posters here are already doing.
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  #32  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:50 PM
RigglePLC's Avatar
RigglePLC RigglePLC is online now
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I tried fertilizer treatments in my back yard, early October mid Oct, and mid-November of 2011. I saw no difference in spring of 2012.
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  #33  
Old 10-01-2012, 10:45 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
I'm not sure your article is relevant to this discussion. No one here is talking about spring applications. We're all talking about fall applications. You said in your first post that fall applications should be timed such the N is used and depleted before winter. The article you linked suggests that fall applications should be made late enough that the N is NOT depleted before winter and carries over until spring, so that the nutrients are present without needing a spring application.

You just linked to an article that said what I already said and what most of the posters here are already doing.
If we used your 'take' on the meaning of the article, then :

What is the difference between,,, Fall/Winter application still on the soil,,, in it's prilled form, ready for release at the first warm rain,,, what is the difference between that and dumping early Spring NPK onto the turf as soon as the snow melts ready to release at the first warm rain...?

Again,,,
If that is the meaning of the article then there was no point for the researchers to even differentiate between Fall and Winter ...

It is necessary to read and think about what the author is presenting... it is necessary to study and analyse the points and counterpoints brought up in the articles we read to see whether it is clearly understood...

It is a mistake to look at this article as a support for the status quo...

That is why I stated earlier that this could be a great discussion if thoughtfully engaged... Will misunderstandings, mis-interpretations and hyperbole prevail???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #34  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:15 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Perhaps this one statement,,, copied from the article,,, as the first sentence of a paragraph,,, should have a thread of its own...

" The true advantage that late-season fertilization provides to turfgrass root growth is realized during the following spring. ...

but for now,,, let's contrast with another statement from the same article:

" The rapid decline occurs because carbohydrates are needed to support the increased shoot growth resulting from nitrogen applications made early in the season ..."
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #35  
Old 10-01-2012, 12:48 PM
BTC BTC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Perhaps this one statement,,, copied from the article,,, as the first sentence of a paragraph,,, should have a thread of its own...

" The true advantage that late-season fertilization provides to turfgrass root growth is realized during the following spring. ...

but for now,,, let's contrast with another statement from the same article:

" The rapid decline occurs because carbohydrates are needed to support the increased shoot growth resulting from nitrogen applications made early in the season ..."
I didn't read the article, so I'm left wondering what they are referring to in the second sentence you quoted. The rapid decline of what?
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  #36  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:11 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTC View Post
I didn't read the article, so I'm left wondering what they are referring to in the second sentence you quoted. The rapid decline of what?
The rapid decline of carbohydrates... the full paragraph is a few posts up...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #37  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:17 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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The article is essentially saying that the early app of NPK stimulates the shoot growth to an unhealthy extent that burns up energy reserves in the plant... also indicates that this occurs at the expense of the root development that is the normal healthy activity of the plant,,, at this time of the year...

So in a nutshell,,, the Early Spring app of fert and pre-m results in a double-whammy,,, that only hurts the chances of a strong root system...
Wait a couple of mowings and it works out fine...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #38  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:57 AM
BTC BTC is offline
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I'm planning to put some Milorganite on my yard this week.
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  #39  
Old 10-03-2012, 11:59 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Studies have shown over and over that soil N content is usually very stable in frozen soils.

In the fall, nitrates tend to move down in the soil profile with increased rainfall, then move up with the freeze/thaw of late fall, stay stable in mid-winter, then move up with spring freeze/thaw cycles, and back down with rain and snow melt. Nitrate really follows the water. ...
Here is a comment from the: http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/4dm...s/mythwint.htm , that disagrees with you on that...

"... If you have very sandy soil (uncommon in the metro area except along South Platte and eastern areas) do not fertilize later than late September, as nitrogen leaches readily through sandy soil, especially during winter months, and will contaminate ground water. On sandy soils, it's best to use "slow-release" nitrogen fertilizers such as organics, IBDU, or sulfur-coated urea, to reduce potential for groundwater contamination..."(emphasis mine)

Haven't heard back from any of my questions... you were telling me what was common sense practices and I was looking forward to a real discussion... is that off now???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #40  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:07 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTC View Post
I'm planning to put some Milorganite on my yard this week.
Where do you live?
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,,, I wonder what does...
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