Register free!
Search
 
     

The Green Industry's Resource Center


Click for Weather
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-07-2012, 11:43 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,360
Boy that drive is definitely stout to do that, poor mower!

What is it with these guy's and there super mower's then they put a girly deck on it that cut's as wide as a G string.
  #52  
Old 10-07-2012, 11:46 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmower View Post
OP, I found a similar situation going from an XR7 SZ to the Gravely 460. The property I have is rough, flat, wide open, I cut fast, and when the sun goes down shows every uneven cut (you can see if you ck my posts). Yes the 460's seat and isolation is awesome but if you removed both seats and ran them my SZ (with flex forks) rides smoother and leaves a smoother cut on this particular property. After a whole season of beating this into the ground I believe in my case that the 460 is lighter in the front end causing the front to bounce more, also it has a shorter wheel base which directly effects the ride, a ever so slightly higher COG, and lastly like others stated, on my 460 there is so much give in the seat design (which can be adjusted) that the rocking and bouncing will make you move the steering sticks unless you can be super limp wristed to absorb the motion. Then after trying all sorts of things I believe I found my answer to the extreme difference in machine rides. I've cut this property with my SZs for the last 7 years and I think my ruts from years of SZ (even when changing the pattern every time) are oddly positioned in such a way that the shorter wheel base of the 460 hits the ruts in a terrible out of sync manner if this makes sense. Feels like I'm on a bucking bronc if I push my speed. I think if the rut pattern from my SZ was narrow or wider that the 460 would not react so violently. In summary your previous mowers rut width may be spaced in such a way that the SZ is hitting the ruts out of time or sync. So yes the 460 may have room for a tweak of improvement here or there but I concluded that it's not so much the mower to blame but the rut pattern of the property. Don't know if I'm making sense.
Which mower do you like best?
  #53  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:33 AM
greenology's Avatar
greenology greenology is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
Well, unless the female in the video is waaaay heavier than she appears to be, the seat couldn't have been set at the top for her there. She wouldn't have had enough body weight to get the seat to bounce and buckle on every single bump like it does in your video.

I don't think you are getting what we are saying either. I don't believe many, if anyone have said they thought you were going/mowing 15 MPH. I know I didn't say that.

I didn't say that you didn't know how to do anything with a Z either. I did say to check your tire gauge though, to make sure it is working correctly. 8 PSI isn't much pressure, and many gauges simply don't read accurately that low, even if they say they can go down to 1lb PSI.


Common sense dictates that your machine simply can't be that far off from any other machine as far as the ride goes. There has to be some easy and logical corrections that can be made to it. You may have mowed that property on other machines in the past, but IIRC, Mickhippy said that you guys have been in a drought? That would certainly make the ground a lot harder to ride over. Whether or not you want to believe it,, the ground in the video is very rough, and that's easy too see just by watching the rear tires bounce.

If you come to a public forum and ask for opinions or help, you gotta be willing to listen, especially when the vast majority of the posters are telling you the same thing.

The seat was set at the top, that im sure about, so im not sure why its bouncing more than you would expect. I can say that I notice the seat is a lot firmer when I set it to the highest as you would expect. Anyway I have today set it to 10kg above my weight as MickHippy has suggested. Also moved the back rest all the way back which has helped, most of the time on the hustler i dont lean on the backrest though.

The point about the 15 MPH is Im getting a lot of comments from not just on her but hustler rep & dealers telling me I shouldnt be cutting at 15 MPH and expect a good ride, it really goes without saying... but yet ppl continue to mention it. Maybe not yourself though.

I will buy a low pressure guage asap and make sure I get the tires down to 8 PSI, this has got to soak up a certain percentage of the bumps off coarse.

The ground im mowing in there has always been this rough, not sure why its possibly from water run off over time. But keeping in mind that this is not the only lawn with bumps, 90 % of my lawns have them and the mower will react in the same way on those lawns also, just on other lawns there is a good break in between rough sections.

I must admit my only reason for coming on this forum was to find out whether there was other people having the same issues as me, but it was a little frustrating to find out no one else seems to have the problem. However i certainly do appreciate the time ppl are goign to giving me tips etc so I am more than happy to now take it all on board and continue trying to adapt to the mower. This is off coarse the best scenario for me, i definately dont want to lose moner selling the mower and I dont want to continue using it whereby it makes me nasueas, so ill do as much as I can so I can get to a point where im a happy hustler client.
  #54  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:49 AM
greenology's Avatar
greenology greenology is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickhippy View Post
I watched the vids again and it looks as though you had less body movement when you were leaning forward. Again, adjust the seat back more angled away from your back so it doesnt hit you, and lean further away from it when you go over any rough ground.

You need to set the seat weight about 10kg or so more than you weigh, or just enough so it doesnt bottom out most of the time. Setting it at 130kg or what ever is too stiff. I weigh about 85kg and the seat is set at around 95kg.

Below is a photo of where my deck springs are set. I have about 1.5" more for adjustment. How much do you have? Try adjusting that nut all the way to the end, both sides of the deck. If that doesnt work ask your dealer about shortening them. It will be a pita to do so let the dealer do it if you go down that road. May even need to find a shorter and or weaker spring. I would not take them off altogether!

Get yourself a low pressure tire gauge. Unless your dealer used one, you have no real idea whats in there. Last time I let my dealer level my deck they set one tire up around 24psi and the other 18 or so. I asked for 10psi. Dont even get me started on all that though!

Try holding the levers further down, like around the first bend. That will give you less leverage so therefore probably less chance of jerking. Also, use a lighter touch.

The above should sort your forward/back, up and down but going front on over ruts like your doing in the vid will be rough no matter what machine of similar size, Ferris excluded.
How did those ruts get there? The place has either been mowed in both directions or possible circular. Seriously try a different direction. Think of the union jack with the 4 different angles. Doing angles doesnt add much time and Im sure youd be able to make it up with a faster speed. Next time you go over a speed bump, try hitting it at an angle. Its much less severe then hitting it front on as only one wheel has to absorb the shock at a time.

Id like to see vid of you driving the Dixon over those same ruts. Id also like to see a side by side comparison of speed between the Dix and the SZ. I wonder if your actually going faster than you think.

Below are a few pics of a property I just picked up. I DID NOT do whats in the pics. I got the job because of it. Every one of those lines is a rut from being mowed in the same circular direction for god knows how long. The terracing is insane. Point is, no way I can get any real speed on this place as the deck will bounce badly and is really not good on my back. Point is, I know its rough so adjust my methods accordingly.

In the video with my back not on backrest, this was taken on a much smoother lawn, I didnt actually take a video of that on the same property which I should have! Taking my back of the seat rest is a help for sure, but doesnt fix it maybe 50% better. Also I end up with a sore lower back at times as some lawns are rough for a large percentage of the time, I guess all I can do is think back to my old mower where I never had to do that, and buying this hustler i expected a smoother ride, even tho i may need to accept this is the case it is still upsetting.

I will measure the springs tonight, im going to back them off all the way so no adjustment is left, hiopefully it will improve enough. if not then I will enquire with dealer about shortening springs, or buying some smaller.

Today I went back to the lawn which the videos are in, I honestly tried more than once to go over the same bumps without hands on levers, also with hands low on levers, it didnt help the hydros still seem to do their thing whether my hands are on them or not. I realise in the video I was moving the hydro leavers with my arms during the jerky movements, but this was an extreme case, when im out moving all day im obviously not bucking around to this extent all day, so im not moving levers with my arms, that comes from experience. but i do get the uncomfortable jerkyness even at very slow speeds.

I would definately like to get the old dixon out to the property and do a side by side comparison, I will do when I am able to but its a difficult task so not too sure how soon. In the mean time I am confident in myself that im not goign as fast or atleast no faster over these bumps than I did on the dixon. In fact while the hustler was in the dealers that lawn was due for a cut, so I had to take the old dixon out there and in comparison just didnt have a bad ride at all. I get the up and down bouncing like crazy over those ruts, but never have any jerkyness on the dixon. Anyway taking on board al your suggestions, so will see what I can come up with. I can try going a different angle on that lawn, but as I say I am getting the rough ride on all of my lawns not just this one and changing angles will not help in all situations.
  #55  
Old 10-08-2012, 03:30 AM
greenology's Avatar
greenology greenology is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 811
The deck springs had 1/2 inch of adjustment left on them, so I have backed them off completely & no adjustment is left now. I think I have tried this before the dealer re-set the whole deck and from memory it didnt help, but tomorrow I will see if theres any difference.
  #56  
Old 10-08-2012, 04:52 AM
Mickhippy's Avatar
Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 3,733
Half an inch isnt much.
I just had a brilliant idea, if I do say so myself.
Instead of cutting the spring, get some small straps like cheap ratchet straps, feed it through the spring at one (near the) end, feed it down the length of the spring and back out near the other end, lower the deck as far as possible, an inch or more lower than your usual cut height for example. That will compress the spring. Pull the straps as tight as possible and tie ends together. Raise deck to normal height and the springs shouldnt touch the stops. The straps should hold the springs compressed. No need for cutting shorter or messing with deck level etc. Only cost a few $ to try anyway!

Failing that, not sure how but could you add some weight to the deck, a few bricks or something? Just for testing. You could bolt something on later if it helps.

I think the jerking is just something youll have to get used to. Im really doubtful that the drive is faulty. That said, maybe the dampeners are bad. Doubtful both are though.
I really think if you get your body motion sorted, youll sort the jerking.

Put a few more hours on the machine with the backrest angled away and see how you go. Its about all you'll be able to do in the end.
  #57  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:20 AM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,360
You will get used to the drive, the drive is just so powerful that any input creates a big responce.
  #58  
Old 10-08-2012, 09:32 AM
puppypaws's Avatar
puppypaws puppypaws is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Marshville,NC 28103
Posts: 7,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenology View Post
The seat was set at the top, that im sure about, so im not sure why its bouncing more than you would expect. I can say that I notice the seat is a lot firmer when I set it to the highest as you would expect. Anyway I have today set it to 10kg above my weight as MickHippy has suggested. Also moved the back rest all the way back which has helped, most of the time on the hustler i dont lean on the backrest though.

The point about the 15 MPH is Im getting a lot of comments from not just on her but hustler rep & dealers telling me I shouldnt be cutting at 15 MPH and expect a good ride, it really goes without saying... but yet ppl continue to mention it. Maybe not yourself though.

I will buy a low pressure guage asap and make sure I get the tires down to 8 PSI, this has got to soak up a certain percentage of the bumps off coarse.

The ground im mowing in there has always been this rough, not sure why its possibly from water run off over time. But keeping in mind that this is not the only lawn with bumps, 90 % of my lawns have them and the mower will react in the same way on those lawns also, just on other lawns there is a good break in between rough sections.

I must admit my only reason for coming on this forum was to find out whether there was other people having the same issues as me, but it was a little frustrating to find out no one else seems to have the problem. However i certainly do appreciate the time ppl are goign to giving me tips etc so I am more than happy to now take it all on board and continue trying to adapt to the mower. This is off coarse the best scenario for me, i definately dont want to lose moner selling the mower and I dont want to continue using it whereby it makes me nasueas, so ill do as much as I can so I can get to a point where im a happy hustler client.
I have no problem seeing exactly what is causing the bouncing, and it is definitely coming from the washboard effect of the ruts which came from water washing soil away over the years. I could also see immediately you were running nowhere close to the Super Z's top speed, if running over the ruts at that speed you would be leaving the seat if not strapped in very tightly.

The one thing I do have a problem with is you saying you have cut this same property on a previously owed ztr at 13 mph without seeing the bouncing you are experiencing with the Super Z. That my friend is not possible, my new longer wheel base Super Z would not ride smoothly over this ground, but much better than a shorter wheel base ztr equipped with only a suspension seat.

Think of this ground in terms of water you are riding across in a boat, the chop on water which has the peaks of its waves spaced out at a certain distance may be extremely rough riding in, lets say an 18' boat. You can take the same boat and add only 3' to its length making it a 21' boat, which in return will allow the boat to reach across, and stay on top of the waves making for a much smoother ride. The reason I use this illustration comes from many years of operating boats in size from 10' to 52'... the shorter, lighter boat will beat your brains out, while the heavier, longer boat gives a much superior ride. Weight and length is the part of the equation that makes basically anything ride better.
__________________
Farm Mower
  #59  
Old 10-08-2012, 09:47 AM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I have no problem seeing exactly what is causing the bouncing, and it is definitely coming from the washboard effect of the ruts which came from water washing soil away over the years. I could also see immediately you were running nowhere close to the Super Z's top speed, if running over the ruts at that speed you would be leaving the seat if not strapped in very tightly.

The one thing I do have a problem with is you saying you have cut this same property on a previously owed ztr at 13 mph without seeing the bouncing you are experiencing with the Super Z. That my friend is not possible, my new longer wheel base Super Z would not ride smoothly over this ground, but much better than a shorter wheel base ztr equipped with only a suspension seat.

Think of this ground in terms of water you are riding across in a boat, the chop on water which has the peaks of its waves spaced out at a certain distance may be extremely rough riding in, lets say an 18' boat. You can take the same boat and add only 3' to its length making it a 21' boat, which in return will allow the boat to reach across, and stay on top of the waves making for a much smoother ride. The reason I use this illustration comes from many years of operating boats in size from 10' to 52'... the shorter, lighter boat will beat your brains out, while the heavier, longer boat gives a much superior ride. Weight and length is the part of the equation that makes basically anything ride better.
I just had a conversation with a dealer who sells alot of these and he said he has had a few complaints about the ride from guy's who own both the XR7 and new Super, he said the complaint came from guy's who own like 30 or 40 Super Z's so he took note.

It seems to be flex forks are the norm on these mowers and that was the cure he told me.

Puppy you are wrong about added weight helping the ride, it's your enemy and a stiffer more heavily built frame will add to it,and added weight on hills will cause the mower to slide down more not give more traction.
  #60  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:17 PM
puppypaws's Avatar
puppypaws puppypaws is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Marshville,NC 28103
Posts: 7,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
I just had a conversation with a dealer who sells alot of these and he said he has had a few complaints about the ride from guy's who own both the XR7 and new Super, he said the complaint came from guy's who own like 30 or 40 Super Z's so he took note.

It seems to be flex forks are the norm on these mowers and that was the cure he told me.

Puppy you are wrong about added weight helping the ride, it's your enemy and a stiffer more heavily built frame will add to it,and added weight on hills will cause the mower to slide down more not give more traction.
I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you...I've been on entirely too much light equipment versus heavy equipment to ever believe lighter weight promotes a better ride. As a matter of fact, given the size of a lighter weight truck versus the heavier GMC Yukon XL I drive, which would you assume rides best, give me your honest answer and why you answer this way? Remember, we are not talking about traction and slope handling capability, we are talking only about ride and comfort.

I don't care how many people you talk to that tells you this, and tells you that, including "greenology" with his video, the new-style Hustler Super Z with its heavier weight and longer wheel base rides and operates extremely well, and better than the lighter, shorter wheel base older style model Super Z.

The people the guy spoke of owning 30 or 40 Super Z mowers have no idea how they ride period, much less day-in and day-out/
__________________
Farm Mower

Last edited by puppypaws; 10-08-2012 at 12:26 PM.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:09 AM.

Page generated in 0.07364 seconds with 10 queries