Register free!

The Green Industry's Resource Center



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #71  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:22 PM
puppypaws's Avatar
puppypaws puppypaws is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Marshville,NC 28103
Posts: 7,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS View Post
I still think it's the rear tire pressure.

A good quality analog 0-15psi gauge is necessary.

There is a HUGE difference in ride between 8 and 12 psi.

Maybe these OTR tires are stiffer riding than Carlisle's ?
The new longer wheel base Super I now have with the semi-pneumatic tires (which I thought would be rougher riding) handle the ruts easier than my shorter wheel base Super does. When the front wheels move out of the rut it is a split second longer before the rear tires move through the same rut, which in turn lets your body adjust, as where with the shorter wheel base it does not. People may not think this can make a difference, but they only need to compare to find out for themselves. I honestly don't think I would have bought into this until experiencing it for myself.
__________________
Farm Mower
  #72  
Old 10-08-2012, 10:07 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
The new longer wheel base Super I now have with the semi-pneumatic tires (which I thought would be rougher riding) handle the ruts easier than my shorter wheel base Super does. When the front wheels move out of the rut it is a split second longer before the rear tires move through the same rut, which in turn lets your body adjust, as where with the shorter wheel base it does not. People may not think this can make a difference, but they only need to compare to find out for themselves. I honestly don't think I would have bought into this until experiencing it for myself.
Your mower is alot longer than your 66, my 72 should be 2 inches longer than your 66.

Weight and speed do not mix over rough terrain all things being equal,yes water in the tires will lower the center of gravity and give better traction to a point. As your speed goes up the water will create a gyro imbalance as in like a washer on spin cycle that does not let the water out. Have you ever seen that when the machine starts violently jumping around.

And definitely on hills weight is your enemy for keeping traction and not sliding,now putting water in the tires lowers the center of gravity good and that is different.

In some cases at lower speed weight may be good if done correctly but as the speed goes up it handicaps bad.

You take a Goldwing at speed off road and see what handles better a 600 at 400 pounds or a Goldwing. The Goldwing with all it's weight will kill you at speed. The 600 can be made to handle and hill climb with no problem, they do it all the time, you do not see a Goldwing doing that do you?. THE GOLDWING WILL KILL YOU.

I'll be it 200 pounds is not that big a deal but a stiff chasses being made by the pounds could be.

All I am saying is ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL the lighter design will navigate choppy rutty terrain better not a heavier one.

Last edited by Realslowww; 10-08-2012 at 10:15 PM.
  #73  
Old 10-08-2012, 10:26 PM
TNGrassCutter's Avatar
TNGrassCutter TNGrassCutter is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,302
Again incorrect examples. Your washer should never jump around when full of water, only time they do that is when they are on the spin cycle with all the clothes gathered on one side. It doesn't spin fast enough in wash cycles to jump around. The water or fluid is mostly staying at or near the bottom of the tire even at 15 MPH , its not spinning fast enough to move the fluid anywhere else.
Posted via Mobile Device
  #74  
Old 10-08-2012, 10:58 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNGrassCutter View Post
Again incorrect examples. Your washer should never jump around when full of water, only time they do that is when they are on the spin cycle with all the clothes gathered on one side. It doesn't spin fast enough in wash cycles to jump around. The water or fluid is mostly staying at or near the bottom of the tire even at 15 MPH , its not spinning fast enough to move the fluid anywhere else.
Posted via Mobile Device
it's the wieght of the water that does the jumping not the weight of the clothes, when the water bleeds off and it is just the clothing it balances out and quits jumping.

I remember 20 or 25 years ago when the monster trucks were getting bigger and heavier then all the suddenly they used their heads and figured out well gee a Formula one car will stomp a Nascar in handling. gee I wonder why most of the reason is WEIGHT! so then they started ligtning the monster trucks up and then they handled the rough terrain much better and made much better times.

Just like my quad and my 2 wheeler. My 2 wheelers will tear up the quad in rough terrain why well most of it is weight but 2 wheels compared to 4 helps as well in making it more agile. The quad beats the crap out of you compared to the 2 wheeler.

15 MPH is a good clip to hit stuff with no real suspension.

And I will Gaurantee you can make my 200 pound lighter 72 handle a good bit better over practically all terrain over the new Super because it is 200 pounds lighter, no dought the new mower is better but 200 pounds is 200 pounds.
  #75  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:53 AM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
it's the wieght of the water that does the jumping not the weight of the clothes, when the water bleeds off and it is just the clothing it balances out and quits jumping.This is again, not correct. I do all my laundry. I know when the machine gets to jumping, and what causes it. It is as TN said- the clothes are piled heavily to one side throwing the basket out of balance. It never, ever jumps around with water in it because the agitation speed is so low.

I remember 20 or 25 years ago when the monster trucks were getting bigger and heavier then all the suddenly they used their heads and figured out well gee a Formula one car will stomp a Nascar in handling. gee I wonder why most of the reason is WEIGHT! so then they started ligtning the monster trucks up and then they handled the rough terrain much better and made much better times.Again, not a valid comarison. You are talking about two completely different things regarding energy and the transfer of it. A mower doesn't jump high in the air, nor weigh what the truck does, and the mower isn't depending on high tech suspension sytems to soften the impacts like the monster truck needs to have. High tech suspension, lighter weight truck= longer lasting truck when jumping over stuff. It has nothing to do with the smoothness of the ride.

Just like my quad and my 2 wheeler. My 2 wheelers will tear up the quad in rough terrain why well most of it is weight but 2 wheels compared to 4 helps as well in making it more agile. The quad beats the crap out of you compared to the 2 wheeler.Because the quad has at least two wheels banging off the ground compared to only one on the dirt bike

15 MPH is a good clip to hit stuff with no real suspension.

And I will Gaurantee you can make my 200 pound lighter 72 handle a good bit better over practically all terrain over the new Super because it is 200 pounds lighter, no dought the new mower is better but 200 pounds is 200 pounds. Simply not correct bro. A light mower in comparison to the mass of Earth, Mmmmm, which do you think will move away from the other, and at a faster clip? With no suspension involved to make things complicated- the answer is lighter- always.
As for the fluid in the tires, they don't just fill the bottom end. It is usually to at least 90%, but not more because there needs to be some air space for proper inflation, for both ride quality, and to make the tire flex better for traction in the fieldd. That way the rim is never exposed to air when using calcium chloride for weight, which would cause rust to form on the rim. Most are now using beet juice (Rim Guard) because it doesn't cause corrocsion, and costs less, but weighs more. Still, they fill the tire up to near the top. No weight tranfer or out of balance conditions that way, and tires filled to near full give far less road lope (hop) when transporting between fields.
  #76  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:29 AM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
As for the fluid in the tires, they don't just fill the bottom end. It is usually to at least 90%, but not more because there needs to be some air space for proper inflation, for both ride quality, and to make the tire flex better for traction in the fieldd. That way the rim is never exposed to air when using calcium chloride for weight, which would cause rust to form on the rim. Most are now using beet juice (Rim Guard) because it doesn't cause corrocsion, and costs less, but weighs more. Still, they fill the tire up to near the top. No weight tranfer or out of balance conditions that way, and tires filled to near full give far less road lope (hop) when transporting between fields.
Thanks I did not know that ,how fast can you go with the tires like that? I know in racing light wheels are the key to going faster so I know you can only spin them up so much before you run into trouble.

That is a huge tractor tire as well, it gave me the idea to do it to my mower for doing real steep slopes? with low air pressure to try and get the tires to hook up better.

You are telling the weight has nothing to do with the quad being a pig?

I do not like the fact the new Super weighs 200 more pounds at all.

You want it to glide over all the ruts at speed not ride in them, that is why my more agile bikes kill the heavier machines.Although I will admit this is a mower and not a race vehicle but 15 MPH is pretty racy for no suspension.

Last edited by Realslowww; 10-09-2012 at 02:36 AM.
  #77  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:40 AM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
As for the fluid in the tires, they don't just fill the bottom end. It is usually to at least 90%, but not more because there needs to be some air space for proper inflation, for both ride quality, and to make the tire flex better for traction in the fieldd. That way the rim is never exposed to air when using calcium chloride for weight, which would cause rust to form on the rim. Most are now using beet juice (Rim Guard) because it doesn't cause corrocsion, and costs less, but weighs more. Still, they fill the tire up to near the top. No weight tranfer or out of balance conditions that way, and tires filled to near full give far less road lope (hop) when transporting between fields.
I will gaurantee you I can get the older Super with tuning to handle and ride a good bit better over rough terrain than the newer 200 pound heavier machine.

I have set up enough race vehicles to know how bad weight is in rough terrain.

Thanks for the info

Last edited by Realslowww; 10-09-2012 at 02:46 AM.
  #78  
Old 10-09-2012, 03:37 AM
greenology's Avatar
greenology greenology is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 811
Today I used a Toro Z Master diesel zero turn. Its ground speed is definately faster than my old dixons were, I rode it as fast as it would go over ever rut I could find, I was bouncing out of the seat completely with my ass lifting a few inches above the seat. But I never had any jerking feeling, my neck wasnt jerked forward to back. It reminded me of the ride on the dixon, just plain old bumps up and down very rough ride sure, but no jerking whatsoever. It was such a relief to be using that machine, then I immediately got back on the hustler and drove over the exact same terrain at 1/4 of the speed, and had the deck bouncing and my neck being jerked once again.

The big difference between the mowers, hustler has flex forks, the toro didnt. Im wondering if there is an issue with my flex forks or if I simply dont like the way a zero turn rides with flex forks... But I am goign to ask the dealer if I can borrow a set of standard forks and use them for a while to see how it goes.

I never said my old dixon wasnt rough, I just said it never jerked me around and made me nasueas.
  #79  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:04 AM
greenology's Avatar
greenology greenology is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I have no problem seeing exactly what is causing the bouncing, and it is definitely coming from the washboard effect of the ruts which came from water washing soil away over the years. I could also see immediately you were running nowhere close to the Super Z's top speed, if running over the ruts at that speed you would be leaving the seat if not strapped in very tightly.

The one thing I do have a problem with is you saying you have cut this same property on a previously owed ztr at 13 mph without seeing the bouncing you are experiencing with the Super Z. That my friend is not possible, my new longer wheel base Super Z would not ride smoothly over this ground, but much better than a shorter wheel base ztr equipped with only a suspension seat.

Think of this ground in terms of water you are riding across in a boat, the chop on water which has the peaks of its waves spaced out at a certain distance may be extremely rough riding in, lets say an 18' boat. You can take the same boat and add only 3' to its length making it a 21' boat, which in return will allow the boat to reach across, and stay on top of the waves making for a much smoother ride. The reason I use this illustration comes from many years of operating boats in size from 10' to 52'... the shorter, lighter boat will beat your brains out, while the heavier, longer boat gives a much superior ride. Weight and length is the part of the equation that makes basically anything ride better.

Mate the ruts on this lawn are NOT the only place I get this issue. I get the same problem on EVERY single one of my lawns!! I wish I never showed the dam video of the ruts, I was just trying to show it in its most dramatic state. But if you would just take my dam word for it, the machine does it everywhere there is any kind of bump whatsoever, okay? I guess your the kind of guy that thinks most people out there are stupid and therefor you give no one the benefit of the doubt.

I never said I could run the dixon at 13 MPH I said half the speed of the hustler is the full speed of my dixon, therefor the speed is 7MPH flat out on dixon and yes I assure you I can dam well go full speed over those ruts in my dixon!!!!! I dont make things up!! I do get a very rough ride with the dixon, but the rough ride has no jerking in it, therefor i get no headaches or ill feelings after hours of mowing on the dioxon.

its not the ground or the ruts or the washboard effect...

Your telling me that since I went from a for eg 2.576897 meter long wheel base as opposed to a 3.576543 meter wheel base, therefor I should expect to be jerked around and expect a rough ride and just put up with it?

As far as speed goes. As I keep saying on here, I get the same rough ride at all speeds!!!
  #80  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:07 AM
Mickhippy's Avatar
Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 3,983
Ok so you need to make the deck springs shorter. Compress them with a couple of ratchet straps like I said in another post. That way you'll know if its the springs or not.
Hope your dealer can sort a couple of forks, and air filled tires set at 10psi or so for you.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:14 AM.

Page generated in 0.07989 seconds with 10 queries