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Old 10-12-2012, 04:27 PM
jmacd jmacd is offline
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Location: Upstate New York
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The outcome wasn't very good. First off be happy that your are not going back.

I don't see this working in your favor. The pool guys will be looking for any reason to hurt you. They could sabotage your work, or just make sure that you look bad.

If you have worked on a project were the contractor's doing the work don't get along you should know how hard it is to come out with your hide in the end. In this case no option but to walk away even if the owner wanted you to do the work, the pool work and the pool is reason you had the job in the first place not the other way around.

When you first start out you have to take on what ever work comes your way to pay the bills. After some hard lessons, and paying your dues you will get to the place were you are picky about what jobs you do and who you work for. You have to be paranoid about every project you do, think about all the bad that can happen and CYA. This will come with time and experience, ( money lost).

If it was easy everyone would do it.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:01 AM
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crusty_crab80 crusty_crab80 is offline
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Alaska
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So..3 years later. What happened with the project, the pool guys, client?
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:47 PM
Gr8WhiteNorth Gr8WhiteNorth is online now
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Location: Manitoba, canada
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So can anybody pick out what was wrong with the installation? My mind goes through the steps everytime I see a failure so I can prevent myself from making those mistakes.

Photos don't show that much, so I may be making some assumptions, but here is my best attempt:

1. Wall below the pool: No sign of internal drain system or drain rock against wall face, inappropriate fill material behind the wall, no overland drainage scheme evident, Wall not designed for pool weight surcharge load.

2. Pool: I'm not familiar with the system used here, but if its an in-ground pool, it needed to be buried all the way around to be fully supported. If above ground, shouldn't be buried at all. If hybrid, not sure what the expectations should be. Was the pool installed on disturbed soil? Did they get dig out the organic soil if it was present (soil test would have dictated installation requirements if native soil was inadequate).

3. Balance of Hardscaping: Was the pool design able to support the weight of Quarry/Weston wall and steps so close? The fill up along the side to build up the patio? How does the patio drain? Are there internal drainage considerations for the Quarry/Weston wall to exit water and reduce its surcharge weight? Was weeping tile used around the bottom of the pool where it was backfilled? Did the pool design stipulate type or weight restrictions of compaction equipment or provide a list of approved fill materials?

Curious what anyone else could add?
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:53 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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We didn't get a landscape job around a pool, and I am thankful.

The top of the poured wall was about 18" below the pool deck\patio. Another side had a steep slope. 3:1 I would say.

The pool installer told her she needed a retaining wall.

We told her she needed a retaining wall.

She said she didn't have money for a retaining wall.

Gave her a 2 week time frame before we could start. She found someone else that could do it Monday. I said "No problem".
“Every step we take towards making the State the Caretaker of our lives,

by that much we move toward making the State our Master.”

~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:06 PM
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ToddH ToddH is offline
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Originally Posted by KrayzKajun View Post
Hope customer has a good lawyer. I can see this getting nasty.
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No Kidding... Even if not liable the insurance company is going to tie up some of the GL.... while the case is pending.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:11 AM
TheLugNutZ TheLugNutZ is offline
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I know this thread is old, but as an insurance agent that works with a lot of contractors, I really want to point a few things out. Especially since we are talking hardscaping and engineering, and design.

Originally Posted by GreenI.A. View Post
I thought I posted the other day but I must not of hit the "submit reply" button. I was surprised it took so long for insurance to be brought up. If I was in the OP's shoes and the pool company was trying to get me to do the repair at no cost, I would have handled it the same at first. But as the talks continued and they were refusing to pay me I would tell them "I will do it and file a claim with my GL for the labor, I'm sure their attorneys will have plenty to say about this". People use the threat of "I'm calling my layer" way to often and usually it isn't taken seriously, but the thought of the insurance carriers attorneys are often much more threatening than the thought of a contractors attorneys. Just discussing the attorneys may be enough to get the pool company to take a little more responsibility. That above was the advise my own attorney has given me, before I even contact him, always mention the insurance company and their attorneys first.
Originally Posted by jrmyj View Post
They said then other day that they didn't realize their insurance would cover it but they have been in business for 30 years. I didn't want to call mine until I had to so I didn't have a claim on me. I'm still not in the clear yet. It's up to the insurance now so I might have to get mine involved by the time it's all said and done
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Unfortunately, thats not how it works. You dont open a claim on your own general liability policy, that would be like suing yourself, you cant do that. YOU sue the OTHER PARTY (them) and THEY turn it into THEIR insurance company. Just exactly like it happened in this situation.

Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
I have been in business for 22 yrs and I have no insurance that would cover my error. It would come out of my pocket. I believe its Known as errors and omissions insurance?

And when read the ins company claim would be filed I thought "now it gets even better".

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This is correct and VERY IMPORTANT. Your general liability will not cover failure due to design or engineer error. This is PROFESSIONAL liability AKA E&O.

Originally Posted by jmacd View Post
This will not stand up in court. Even if the customer signs your contract and you have clause after clause you are considered the expert. Plain and simple you are the expert, not the customer. So if you build something that fails, you are responsible if it goes to court.

Your contract clause only means you built it knowing it was wrong and still did it for financial gain. You are responsible.

Same thing applies with design work, you are responsible unless you have a stamped set of plans then the engineer is responsible.
This is also correct for the most part as shown in past case history. Thats why you make sure the engineer overseeing the design has E&O coverage or you yourself do if you employ the engineer yourself (THIS INCLUDES 10-99!!)
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:20 PM
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zedosix zedosix is offline
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Location: Eastern Ontario
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Pool installer made the wrong decision to install with no proper support. He's a dink
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Old 08-13-2015, 01:40 PM
CollegeMowers CollegeMowers is offline
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Walk Away. Actually Run!
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