Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:42 PM
pfcjs pfcjs is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 60
Well to summarize:
1. Cigars are "cool", enjoying a nice alec bradley blondie here in a few!
2. The project is awesome, and your initial intent of showing people a neat way to hide the foundation wall was a great idea.
Kudos and thanks for posting, even though there was a bunch of BS cluttering up your post!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:43 PM
shovelracer shovelracer is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 2,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrusk View Post
Pissing matches as you call it makes everyone of us better designers and builders.
This is the truth. Otherwise we would all be going around with our heads up our rears thinking we were the greatest without even the slightest clue we were doing something improperly or in a way that could be improved on.

I have to say that I do respect Jim even if it seems we are being irrational over some stairs. He made a post many years back over the winter. Something about the state of the economy, etc. In a time when everyone was selling out and dropping prices I read that post and did the exact opposite. My company has been much better because of that post. It soley changed the way I conduct business and put my company into the next level. I look forward to a new state of the industry this year.

As for the dropoffs, not safe yes, violation of code likely not. Most areas support the 30" drop no railing code. So the deck and patio appear to be OK. Even the no railing stairs are OK with 3 risers. Additionally the deck step into a door is should be within the range allowed, but does not usually need to be consistent often because there must be a landing outside the door which separates the stairs from the door. The patio however is a functional part of the stairs system in the landing area which normally would be the width of the stairs and 3' out. The height anywhere else does not matter as long as it meets slope and runoff requirements.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-23-2012, 09:19 PM
DVS Hardscaper's Avatar
DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: County Jail
Posts: 5,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbailey52 View Post
DVS I think in your past life you were a gray haired,cigar smoking pain in the ass building inspector
Haha! I would certainly make an excellent building inspector, no doubt about it!


.
__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-23-2012, 09:30 PM
DVS Hardscaper's Avatar
DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: County Jail
Posts: 5,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrusk View Post
Pissing matches as you call it makes everyone of us better designers and builders.
I agree. Though not with "pissing matches", it only turns into a "pissing match" if someone's mind is clouded with negativity.

I do respect Jim and I know he has an impressive business going.

But no matter what this is the internet! Anyone that's a veteran forum jockey knows darn well what to expect when they hit they "post message" button. And to expect anything else is wishful thinking I could write a 300 page book about forum behavior.
__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:56 PM
JimLewis's Avatar
JimLewis JimLewis is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 6,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
I do respect Jim and I know he has an impressive business going.
You don't have to lie DVS. It doesn't become you.
__________________
Jim Lewis
Lewis Landscape Services - Oregon
"kickin' grass and takin' names"


www.lewislandscape.com - Portland Oregon Landscaping Company

landscape design Portland Oregon
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-23-2012, 11:40 PM
JimLewis's Avatar
JimLewis JimLewis is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 6,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrusk View Post
Pissing matches as you call it makes everyone of us better designers and builders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelracer View Post
This is the truth. Otherwise we would all be going around with our heads up our rears thinking we were the greatest without even the slightest clue we were doing something improperly or in a way that could be improved on.
So, I agree to a certain extent that constructive criticism is helpful. But there's a huge difference between someone being constructive and someone just piping off or even being a jerk. Too often, it's one of the latter. Too often people responding to postings of other contractors work are only negative. Often with a lot of rude mixed in as well. And no matter how much better you are then someone else at something - the person you are being critical of is not going to be persuaded of anything when the criticism comes off as being rude, condescending or from someone who is appearing to be a know-it-all. Those comments are never persuasive, no matter how correct they might be.

It's constantly amazing to me that most of the people posting in these forums are owners and as such also the top salesman for their company. And yet they apparently know very little about the art of persuasion. It's like nobody has ever bothered to read books like "How to Win Friends & Influence People". Otherwise they'd understand the difference between what is persuasive a what is rude and condescending.

This is probably the #1 biggest problem in most of the forums. But more-so in certain forums like this one where people would share more photos if it weren't for all the negative or condescending comments.

The #2 problem is that often people from different parts of the country see something in a photo that looks really odd and unprofessional based on their experience, but it is something that is totally normal elsewhere. A perfect example for this forum is the use of pavers for steps. On the East coast and other parts of the country, apparently it's really common place to use coping for steps (or maybe wall caps). Well, here in the NW, it's not. Even the top landscape firms in the area use pavers over steps. It's commonplace. None of the 5 paver manufacturers in this area even SELL a coping stone. It's just not used here. In this area, it's 100% professional to do steps with pavers on the top. Almost every single home in the Street of Dreams home show in 2011 and 2012 had steps like that. And those are typically $2Mil. homes with the nicest landscapes money can buy. But the guys here would just rip someone a new a-hole for doing it that way.

I've had the same experience with basalt dry-stack rock walls when we've posted photos. People criticize us because they don't like the look. Well, guess what, buddy? That's the most popular kind of wall - by far - in the NW. Maybe it doesn't look good to you, but here people love that. People specifically request that.

I could go on and on with examples. This is what I mean by pissing matches. Everything thinks the way THEY do it where THEY live is the best, most professional way to do it. Forgetting to take into account that we don't have the same suppliers, same soil types, same local influences, same natural materials, etc.

The #3 problem is contractors here often look at a job and question how it was done and why those materials were chosen. Perfect example is a flagstone patio. A lot of guys would install a paver patio with a mortar base, cut each piece of flagstone to fit together with very tight joints, and fill the joints with mortar. We could do that too. But that kind of flagstone patio can be anywhere from $40 - $60 per sq. ft. here. Most of our clientele doesn't have that kind of budget. So most landscape companies in the area here do it similar to how we do it; compact gravel base, fit it together as closely as you can naturally (no cutting) and gator dust in the joints. Sure it doesn't look as amazing as the aforementioned patio. But this variety of flagstone patio is WAY more common in these parts than the other kind. Namely because it can be done for $15-$20 per sq. ft., and that's more within the budget of the typical homeowner here. But if I posted a job of a patio like that I'd get skewered. Nevermind the fact that the homeowner chose that option for budget reasons. Nevermind the fact that it's common to do it that way here. I'd get skewered for even posting one photo of that because it's not as nice as the way other guys here would do it.

Same thing goes for things like seat walls. We'd love to do one in stone. Doing one right now actually. But 98% of the time, that's not within our client's budgets. So we use free standing wall blocks with matching caps most of the time. But when I post a photo of a nice seat wall using those, we get skewered and told the wall looks "amateurish". Well, guess what, Genius? It was either that kind of seat wall or nothing - given their budget. But nobody cares about that. They want to pound their chest and show that they way THEY do seat walls is so much better.

The #4 problem is that contractors all have their own idea of what SHOULD HAVE been used as a material for a job. I'll post a photo of a patio we installed using Venetian pavers by Pavestone and some Jacka$$ will chime in with, "That looks like crap. I would have used Bluestone." Well, good for you! But the client really wanted that paver. And Bluestone costs 3x as much as those pavers here. So that would have been over their budget too. But I guess you know best......

It's that kind of stuff that I mean when I say pissing match. It gets so old for most people that they don't post photos here at all anymore, myself included.

Constructive criticism is helpful if it's truly constructive and provided in a friendly way. It also helps if you say something nice first, rather than ONLY offering a rude comment. Then you are more P-E-R-S-U-A-S-I-V-E. But half the people here don't get that concept at all. So the help they are trying to offer gets totally ignored and they've totally wasted their time without even realizing it.
__________________
Jim Lewis
Lewis Landscape Services - Oregon
"kickin' grass and takin' names"


www.lewislandscape.com - Portland Oregon Landscaping Company

landscape design Portland Oregon
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-24-2012, 07:53 PM
jbailey52's Avatar
jbailey52 jbailey52 is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Horticulture
Posts: 1,049
Sorry Jim, I didn't see that post. Can you re-type it? Ha!


But seriously I agree with everything you said.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:10 PM
MJK MJK is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLewis View Post
So, I agree to a certain extent that constructive criticism is helpful. But there's a huge difference between someone being constructive and someone just piping off or even being a jerk. Too often, it's one of the latter. Too often people responding to postings of other contractors work are only negative. Often with a lot of rude mixed in as well. And no matter how much better you are then someone else at something - the person you are being critical of is not going to be persuaded of anything when the criticism comes off as being rude, condescending or from someone who is appearing to be a know-it-all. Those comments are never persuasive, no matter how correct they might be.

It's constantly amazing to me that most of the people posting in these forums are owners and as such also the top salesman for their company. And yet they apparently know very little about the art of persuasion. It's like nobody has ever bothered to read books like "How to Win Friends & Influence People". Otherwise they'd understand the difference between what is persuasive a what is rude and condescending.

This is probably the #1 biggest problem in most of the forums. But more-so in certain forums like this one where people would share more photos if it weren't for all the negative or condescending comments.

The #2 problem is that often people from different parts of the country see something in a photo that looks really odd and unprofessional based on their experience, but it is something that is totally normal elsewhere. A perfect example for this forum is the use of pavers for steps. On the East coast and other parts of the country, apparently it's really common place to use coping for steps (or maybe wall caps). Well, here in the NW, it's not. Even the top landscape firms in the area use pavers over steps. It's commonplace. None of the 5 paver manufacturers in this area even SELL a coping stone. It's just not used here. In this area, it's 100% professional to do steps with pavers on the top. Almost every single home in the Street of Dreams home show in 2011 and 2012 had steps like that. And those are typically $2Mil. homes with the nicest landscapes money can buy. But the guys here would just rip someone a new a-hole for doing it that way.

I've had the same experience with basalt dry-stack rock walls when we've posted photos. People criticize us because they don't like the look. Well, guess what, buddy? That's the most popular kind of wall - by far - in the NW. Maybe it doesn't look good to you, but here people love that. People specifically request that.

I could go on and on with examples. This is what I mean by pissing matches. Everything thinks the way THEY do it where THEY live is the best, most professional way to do it. Forgetting to take into account that we don't have the same suppliers, same soil types, same local influences, same natural materials, etc.

The #3 problem is contractors here often look at a job and question how it was done and why those materials were chosen. Perfect example is a flagstone patio. A lot of guys would install a paver patio with a mortar base, cut each piece of flagstone to fit together with very tight joints, and fill the joints with mortar. We could do that too. But that kind of flagstone patio can be anywhere from $40 - $60 per sq. ft. here. Most of our clientele doesn't have that kind of budget. So most landscape companies in the area here do it similar to how we do it; compact gravel base, fit it together as closely as you can naturally (no cutting) and gator dust in the joints. Sure it doesn't look as amazing as the aforementioned patio. But this variety of flagstone patio is WAY more common in these parts than the other kind. Namely because it can be done for $15-$20 per sq. ft., and that's more within the budget of the typical homeowner here. But if I posted a job of a patio like that I'd get skewered. Nevermind the fact that the homeowner chose that option for budget reasons. Nevermind the fact that it's common to do it that way here. I'd get skewered for even posting one photo of that because it's not as nice as the way other guys here would do it.

Same thing goes for things like seat walls. We'd love to do one in stone. Doing one right now actually. But 98% of the time, that's not within our client's budgets. So we use free standing wall blocks with matching caps most of the time. But when I post a photo of a nice seat wall using those, we get skewered and told the wall looks "amateurish". Well, guess what, Genius? It was either that kind of seat wall or nothing - given their budget. But nobody cares about that. They want to pound their chest and show that they way THEY do seat walls is so much better.

The #4 problem is that contractors all have their own idea of what SHOULD HAVE been used as a material for a job. I'll post a photo of a patio we installed using Venetian pavers by Pavestone and some Jacka$$ will chime in with, "That looks like crap. I would have used Bluestone." Well, good for you! But the client really wanted that paver. And Bluestone costs 3x as much as those pavers here. So that would have been over their budget too. But I guess you know best......

It's that kind of stuff that I mean when I say pissing match. It gets so old for most people that they don't post photos here at all anymore, myself included.

Constructive criticism is helpful if it's truly constructive and provided in a friendly way. It also helps if you say something nice first, rather than ONLY offering a rude comment. Then you are more P-E-R-S-U-A-S-I-V-E. But half the people here don't get that concept at all. So the help they are trying to offer gets totally ignored and they've totally wasted their time without even realizing it.
Best post ever/thread.

By the way Jim, you helped me understand pricing my first large planting job way back in 2006, got the job and made great money on it.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:00 AM
Groomer's Avatar
Groomer Groomer is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: south west ohio institute of lawn grooming
Posts: 1,257
have the stairs been fixed? I'm lost.lol
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:22 AM
zedosix's Avatar
zedosix zedosix is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 2,361
The stars will get fixed after he writes his novel
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:31 AM.

Page generated in 0.08972 seconds with 10 queries