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  #11  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:07 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by dKoester View Post
I use LS spread fescue. Problem solved. It just fills in any spots. Plant a few seeds in the middle of a pot using soil from the site. Its amazing how fast those 7-8 seed fill the pot. Which leads to the question do you need that much seed for the lawn? * Proper watering, Fertilizer(organic) and compost applications create beautiful lawns.
Putting dirt into a pot loosens the soil immemnsely... it is 100% opposite of the hardpan surface between the core holes in the real lawn...

I find that when apples are compared to apples I learn things more indepth about apples... When I compare apples to oranges, I don't learn much about either...

If I use LS spread fescue will my problem be solved like yours???

Thanks everyone for the replies...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:19 PM
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dKoester dKoester is offline
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Are these hard pan lawns you are talking about being properly renovated? If your just aerating and putting down seed you aren't fixing the problem. Did you miss the last line of what I posted?
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2012, 08:47 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by dKoester View Post
... * Proper watering, Fertilizer(organic) and compost applications create beautiful lawns.
No, we haven't ignored your last sentence...

Now we may figure out how we are able to get seed to grow between the core holes in regards to your last sentence...

If you have enough clay to need aeration at all, you will notice that bare spots in the turf, tends to form little puddles after a few minutes of rain... over time, those puddles actually grow algae, then eventually moss, if conditions are right... This is the most common scenario of all lawns I see in the areaand I'm sure that it is a common scenario for any soil , except the sandy textured soils, but any kind of loam(mixture) worth its salt will have these little puddles on the surface...

If by proper watering, you mean "never allow those puddles to dry", then I suppose you'd solve that problem... but how could you guarantee it??? set timer to 'gentle mist' every 2 hours???
In my experience, the only way to keep those dirt spots from puddling, was to fill them with grass plants...
Organic fertilizer won't prevent this occurance either,, and if you suggest,,, covering the seed with compost, then you're talking about a successful seeding event that has nothing to do with aeration at all...

I think the point that is getting lost is what constitutes a good seedbed and what would be considered less than perfect... its the 'less than perfect' thing that bothers me...
There are very good reasons to aerate, but it has its drawbacks when it comes to seeding...
Is that agreeable???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2012, 08:53 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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It's too bad that there can't be a detailed discussion about what people are seeing in the field about their soils...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2012, 03:56 PM
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dKoester dKoester is offline
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Smallaxe, I believe renovation is a must in hard pan scenarios. I believe it is a waste of time, money and resources otherwise.
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  #16  
Old 11-12-2012, 06:38 PM
grassmasterswilson grassmasterswilson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
You are correct about AR, according with my experiences as well... I sometimes toss AR into trouble areas that have not taken by late Spring just because I want something there to keep down the dust throughout the mowing season... No prep no cover, just wait for the irrigation/rain to come on...

Your second point intrigues me somewhat... are you saying that amostly dead lawn is reseeded after aeration???
Also,,, Why would renting a seeder cost twice as much as renting an aerator???
From what I've heard up here people are charging more for slit seeding than aerating/over seeding. I own an aerator but not a slit seeder. Is that right?
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:18 PM
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dKoester dKoester is offline
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Slit seeding is more. To clarify what I said up top, I was in a hurry, oops. Aeration and seeding without renovation to hardpan clay is a waste of resources, time and customer money. In most cases the grass will not do well during the heat. HOWEVER, if you have this yard year after year and compost it every season after aeration and seeding you will see greatly improved turf each year.
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2012, 09:27 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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OK, we mixing the apples and oranges again... the term hardpan has caused some confusion and that is my fault... we are talking strictly about surface(because that is where seeding takes place) so may I modify the terminology to crust...
Most of the topsoils I work with are the most excellent blends/mixtures of clay, sand and OM(loam), so there is no real hardpan in the truest sense of the word... all of the descriptive terminology relating to the seedbed is strictly within the top 1/4" or so of the surface... so I think, crust, is definately a better word... sorry for the mistake...

These little puddled areas, that I mention earlier, that function as anti-seedbed bare dirt zones,,, is the focus of,,, comparing a hole from an aerator to the slicing the surface from a slit-seeder...

The slit seeder attempts to cover every sq.in. of ground, loosening the top 1/4" ofall the seedbed areas... That is quite acceptable, IMO...
A bare spot that is about the size of a large oak leaf is now crusted over... this crusted area can either have a 1/4" loosening over it or 1, even 2 large holes pounded through it...
Which creates the bed for more seed to find a nice beginning in???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2012, 03:52 PM
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dKoester dKoester is offline
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Slit seeding.
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