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  #61  
Old 11-14-2012, 09:14 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
When people talk about N being applied and then considering it all used up, like a dog licking his bowl clean, I consider that the concept of soil fertility gets lost...

Right now, the surfaces of the lawns turn solid every nite and some shaded areas stay solid, but the grass is still green, though not very britely colored green...

Let's say that the time release prills were applied at the beginning of October but becuz it was so dry, the prills were still in visible form 2 weeks ago when frosts were becoming common, but no freezeups...

How much of that N likely got used in this scenario??? My personal opinion is that since there was very little greenup after the rains started, that the N never really did get used much and now that the ground is frozen, there is very little chance that the 1 pound of N will even be used...
How does that line up with the threory???
This article covers many of the same ideas and once the adjustment from Ohio to WI is made, it does seem to agree with FD's original thought processes...
The real question is, How Much??? N is being used as the soils chill down???
http://turfdisease.osu.edu/turf-disease-updates/benefits-late-fall-fertilization
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #62  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:20 PM
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Groomer Groomer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
I've known Doug for quite a while. His major professor was my college roomate. Anyhow, these recommendations aren't much different from Wayne Kussow's recommendations in the 1970s. They differ a little from other research sites only in timing, such that it gets cold earlier in Madison than it does in Columbus.

But, you'll have to read their research paper. I don't agree with the controlled release source, though, because all controlled release sources are tied back to temperature -- either microbially degraded (the speed of which depends in part on temperature) or is totally temperature dependent. So, you put this fertilizer product in the environment without release, so it is subject to all sorts of different fates, including runoff loss. Since none of your fert will release from controlled release sources in the winter and could be lost ro runoff, I would just save that fert until spring.

Also, fall fert doesn't create carbohydrates in roots directly. Fall applied N allows chlorophyll to be regenerated at higher rates than no N, and it is the chlorophyll that makes the carbohydrates through the photosynthesis process. Remember, grasses in the upper midwest (WI, MN) are typically photosynthetically active until covered with snow.

Again, Soldat found that 70% of your fall N should be applied before the first frost, with the rest to come not long after.
I latched on to this very practical statement rather quickly.
As a lawnsman here in SW Ohio, I have been, for years, intentionally not lowering my cutting heighth at the "end of the season", as so many do.
The turf that I service, as I write this, is still very green and healthy, even after the blistering drought this season.
The photosynthesis part only makes sense as the sun sinks lower in the late fall sky.
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  #63  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:37 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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It's hard to believe that someone would recommend "spoonfeeding" any kind of nitrogen to the turf this late in the season... I look at the idea as being wasteful and does nothing more than grow snowmold...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #64  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:50 AM
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I was just at the local lesco shop for grass seed and asked the guy what he would recommend to put down for the last treatment. He said company's were using 32-0-03 with 20 percent slow release. Said the latest date to put it down would be thanksgiving(in se mi). That was his input. Asked him about 46-0-0 and he wouldn't recommend it this late in the season
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  #65  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:51 PM
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DA Quality Lawn & YS DA Quality Lawn & YS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenstar lawn View Post
I was just at the local lesco shop for grass seed and asked the guy what he would recommend to put down for the last treatment. He said company's were using 32-0-03 with 20 percent slow release. Said the latest date to put it down would be thanksgiving(in se mi). That was his input. Asked him about 46-0-0 and he wouldn't recommend it this late in the season
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Wouldn't recommend 46-0-0? But yet recommend 32-0-3 with only 20% slow N (basically mostly mineral). Not much difference between the two IMO.
Doesn't he know you can control your lbs/K to apply what you want? His recs sound amateurish.
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  #66  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:44 PM
Raymond S. Raymond S. is offline
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We use 32-0-8 from Lesco thru summer. He probably mentioned a 30-0-4 product they sell. Its 20% slow with 2% iron. More $$ per sq ft. Around here it's pretty much strictly 46-0-0 granular urea. Get it down as quick as possible. Can't imagine why another branch would have a different recommendation except perhaps they're overstocked with 30-0-4.
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  #67  
Old 11-17-2012, 09:12 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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So FD, there you have it... your Turf Association and the research doesn't make a bit of difference in the real world...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #68  
Old 11-17-2012, 09:32 AM
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RigglePLC RigglePLC is offline
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I treated strips on a neglected vacant lot non irrigated lawn, with some partial shade. I treated a stripe on Sept 23, 2012, October 8, October 20, and November 3. There were no big differences. All treatments were slightly greener on November 15. I used Shaws 26-0-6, 50 percent slow release. Conditions seasonally cool and rainy. A few frosts, but no snow...yet. Stay tuned. I will take photos in spring.
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  #69  
Old 11-17-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
So FD, there you have it... your Turf Association and the research doesn't make a bit of difference in the real world...
That doesn't surprise me. It takes a long time to change the way applicators do things. My local JDL store still recommends high K for the fall app, they still want to apply fertilizer.

Riggle, they might all look the same but which one used it most efficiently and at the lowest cost.

I would love to apply exactly the way the research shows to do it but I live in a real route based world with over 350 customers. I try to get as close as what is recommended by research and what I have noticed from my results. I am only on the lawn once every 4 to 6 weeks depending the on the round. There is the ideal world and there is the world we live in in where we have to have a green & lush lawn at the lowest cost and be environmentally responsible. Putting a bunch of water soluble nitrogen down late in the season makes no sense to me and is wasteful based on research and what I have seen. If you live in the middle of the country it might be a different story.
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  #70  
Old 11-17-2012, 10:25 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by FdLLawnMan View Post
... Putting a bunch of water soluble nitrogen down late in the season makes no sense to me and is wasteful based on research and what I have seen. If you live in the middle of the country it might be a different story. ...
I don't follow... Why do you think that water soluable N in late season is wasteful??? Are you talking about after Oct. 1st???

Do you believe that 'slow release', is good up until Oct.1st??? or Would you use the water soluable as a winterizer???
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