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  #101  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:32 AM
dtart88 dtart88 is offline
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i understand all the price stuff but when do commercial contracts run out what time of the year do you bid them this year has been my first year and i have done alot of residential but im ready to try some commercial
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  #102  
Old 10-24-2012, 02:48 PM
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gcbailey gcbailey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtart88 View Post
i understand all the price stuff but when do commercial contracts run out what time of the year do you bid them this year has been my first year and i have done alot of residential but im ready to try some commercial
around here most stuff starts going out for bid around February. Start calling around to your potential suitors now or sending "professional" letters stating what you can do for them.

Oh ya.... know what size commercial accounts you can honestly handle to begin with.
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  #103  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:50 AM
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GardnerLawn GardnerLawn is offline
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awesome thread thanks
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  #104  
Old 10-27-2012, 06:48 PM
Giestimator Giestimator is offline
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Costs

The biggest thing with doing any bid is knowing what it actaully costar for you to do the work.. Then you figure your price. Ay other way you have too much of a chance to loose money..

Mike
Www.greenindustryestimator.com
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  #105  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:24 PM
vtscaper vtscaper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PROCUT1 View Post
So you did a search and youre about to post a new thread.

"Big commercial job, what do I bid"

Youre going to post the info about the job, and sit back and wait for guys to give you a price to submit. You;re looking for "the going rate"

Then PROCUT1 is going to post a "sarcastic" response to your thread saying something like.....,"Send me your last years tax return, a years worth of bank statements, an equipment list, a balance sheet, and itemized bills, then I can help you"

"What a jerk, you think" Others will post....."He just wants to give you a hard time, and doesnt want to help"
Well.....Let me tell you something.....If you get a price on here, and you submit that price......Youre on the road to failure.

I know....Youre staring at this bid package right now....You want this job....The big boys that do the condo complexes have these new trucks, fleets of mowers......Theyre rolling in it.....You want to be them....

All you need to do is get your foot in the door right? Wrong

If only you knew what they were charging, you could just go a little less, and get the job....Once they see the quality you give them.....More jobs will follow...Wrong again

Ill be ok as long as them Brickman or Valley Crest lowballers dont bid....
Wrongamundo


Nobody but nobody online can give you a price for that job.
Only you can
If youre a solo guy working out of your house mowing $30 lawns with no real business overhead. You may be profiting $25 on that lawn.
How about if you had 10,000 in overhead expenses a month.
Could you still charge $25 on that lawn?
Suppose it costs you $35 in expense to cut that lawn.
How does me telling you "The going rate is $25" going to help you.

If youre asking for prices....Youre asking the wrong questions. Youre setting yourself up to fail. You will forever rely on "I heard thats a $15,000 property" to submit a bid, not knowing if youre making or losing money.

Here are acceptable questions to start asking.

- How do I measure a property to determine the acreage?
- How do I determine how much mulch is on a property
- I have a 61" ztr. What is the production rate for that machine?
- How many feet per day should a weedwhacking man cover?
- How long does it take to install mulch per yard? What is your technique?
- How long would it take your crew to mow this property? What is the makeup of your crew and equipment?
- How long does it take to edge these beds?

Questions along those lines, are questions as a newbie, you need to ask.
YOU CANT BID WITHOUT THOSE ANSWERS

Not one of them has a price attached.

NOW.....Here is where that info that I ask for comes into play.

You need to take each one of those jobs, and put a time on them.

3 guys 8 hours per week to mow
3 guys a 40 hour week to mulch
3 guys 24 hours to trim the bushes
Dont forget drive time to and from your place

Etc

You need to add up all the manhours to complete the job.
Lets say 1000 man hours for the season to round off numbers

First.

Add up what those employees cost you.
Their salary, matching taxes, processing, workers comp.
Now you have the number what each employee COSTS you per hour.
Lets say you pay your guys $10 per hour that works out to $15 per hour with taxes etc.

So you have 1000 man hours in labor including drive time.
It costs you $15 per man hour.

Your payroll expense....COST TO YOU....Will be $15,000 for the season.

Now. Figure out your materials. The guys on lawnsite told you how to measure.

You come up with 100 yards of mulch. You know your employee expenses already.

Lets say you pay $25 per yard of mulch delivery included
Your mulch expense will COST YOU $2,500

So now your bid is up to $17,500

Now you look and see what each machine and truck burns for fuel. You know how many mowing hours it will be now. You take that hourly number, multiply it by the mowing hours......then by a "high" pump price and that will give you your fuel......

Lets say its $4000 for the season

Now youre at $21,500

Now. You need to add up all of your bills. Shop rent, electric, insurance,
maintenance items, anything that you have to pay thats not a DIRECT cost of doing the job. Add those up for the year.

Now. Figure out how many available working days you have total for the year. Figure out how many hours per day you plan to work. Take into account average number of rain days.

Lets say you can work 150 days per year. 8 hours a day
Thats 1200 regular hours or 3600 man hours for your crew

Lets say your bills add up to $30,000 for the year
Take that number, divide it by 3600

Your overhead is $8 per man hour

Now to figure that into your bid.
You figured 1000 man hours to work this place.

Your overhead will be $8,000


Now your price is at $29,500

THIS IS THE PRICE BEFORE PROFIT.

You are covering employees, overhead, and fuel.

NOW you figure in profit. Which is a number that YOU decide YOU want to make. This is what should be left over when the contract is done, free and clear just sitting in your bank account.

Lets say 20% which is high. But possible, maybe.
$5900

So after the job is done. Everyone and everything is paid. At the end of the season you should have 6 grand sitting in the bank.

YOUR BID IS $ 35,400.00 For this job.

Now......You hear that the "going rate is $29,000"

What do you do?
Ill tell you what most would do......Bid it at $27,000......Just a little cheaper to get the job.....
Do you see the problem here? It costs you 29,500......You cant possibly do the job for 27,000.


So now what? You want the job.

You have to go back to those items and see where you can adjust.

Do you really want to take all the profit off the table? Work all season for nothing in the end?

Maybe you can start with reducing the profit somewhat. You have that option as the owner.

Next.....How can you get those man hours down? Can you figure out how to cut manhours out and get the job done?

If you can, that reduces your bottom line price of $29,500

Can you lower your overhead?
Shop prices for insurance, phones, etc.....Can you save any money there?
Can you locate the material any cheaper? Save some money there?

Its the 29,500 that you have to reduce.

NOW....POST YOUR INFO ON LAWN SITE..

"Guys....My overhead is x per hour.......I calculated x man hours for this job......x amount of fuel......x materials......"
"How can I reduce my expenses?

NOW THATS A QUESTION THAT WILL HELP YOU.

Guys will tell you how to get the job done faster, save money on materials, save man hours etc.......

STILL NOONE GAVE YOU A PRICE

Now you take their advice and apply it.

Maybe between all those you figured out how to save $6,000 in expenses........

Now your bottom line is $23,500 to break even.

You wanted to bid it at $27,000

That would give you $3,500 in profit
8%

Are you happy with 8%? I would be.....Brickman works on 3-4%
Youre clearing double

If you are.......You can bid it at $27,000 and youre making money.

IF YOU CANT GET YOUR BASE EXPENSES LOWER YOU CANT DO THE JOB NO MATTER WHAT THE GOING RATE IS. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Any questions?
great post
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www.distefanolandscaping.com
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  #106  
Old 06-14-2013, 07:44 AM
C&C Landscaping C&C Landscaping is offline
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I like - Thanks
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  #107  
Old 06-14-2013, 03:01 PM
SlaytonFarms SlaytonFarms is offline
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Great Thread..

Needs a bump/sticky
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  #108  
Old 07-02-2013, 05:52 PM
Stars & Stripes Landscaping Stars & Stripes Landscaping is offline
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Location: CT
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After doing some searching this is fantastic information to have while trying to start a business plan for 2014, thank you very much for this information ProCut!
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  #109  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:33 PM
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sapper1975 sapper1975 is offline
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Location: Pembroke
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I could use some opinions or critique on my first commercial bid. I have only done residential business for a year and a half. Buddy of mine convinced me to expand to commercial accounts. The account has 15 acres with very little obstacles. Trimming would consist of 561 feet (used measuring wheel). Has 2 flower beds that are a combined 500 sq. ft. I can get mulch for $22 cu. yd. And has 18 bushes to trim. Mulch has to be done once a year, bushes 3-4 times. Also has 11 acres that need bush hogged. My plan is to use a 4 man crew when the flower bed need done and 2 man for the mowing/trim. My price break down is this:

Bush Hogging will take roughly 3 hours with 15 ft batwing price $500 ($125 per hour)
Mowing should take 3.5-4 hours with 2 machines running price= $420 ($56 per hour)
Trimming with 2 units working will take 4 hours price= $180 ($45 per hour)
Trim Bushes with a crew of 2 will take 3 hours price= $108 ($36 per hour)
Mulching with a crew of 4 will take about 5 hours (mulch will cost $3670) price= $4320 first time pricing this service, am I close? My total bid for the job is $24,752. Breaks down to 1x charge of $5528, 3x charge of $1208, and 26x charge of $600. This sounds high to me, but like I said it is my first commercial bid. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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  #110  
Old 08-06-2013, 12:50 AM
GreenGuysLC GreenGuysLC is offline
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Location: Killen Al
Posts: 265
I have no idea of what the property consist of or its layout, but a few things stand out.... 2 trimmers takes 4 hrs to go 561ft ?? Trimming 18 bushes with two guys will take 3 hrs? And the biggie... Mulching 500 sq ft will cost HOW MUCH??? Or was that suppose to be 5000?? if it is 500 ... you don't need 4 men... and better not take 5 hrs. I don't know what mowers you run, but you need to follow procuts model and understand how much acreage your mower can cover in an hr. And finally .. your breakdown .... "Breaks down to 1x charge of $5528, 3x charge of $1208, and 26x charge of $600." completely lost me... Sorry I cant be more help.... but your numbers aren't adding up and I think your estimating may be off.... hard to say.
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