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  #51  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:01 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Just a note: only use "proper irrigation" when describing the way in which irrigation water is applied by any type of mechanism. Its proper or its improper.

Use "irrigation management" when describing everything else.

Just my 2 cents.

Its not so grey to me.
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  #52  
Old 01-13-2013, 07:53 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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I guess we got somebody that thinks he's clever enough to play "Gotcha", so nothing will ever make sense in this thread... imagine believing that irrigation waters never hit, puddle or disrupt soil structures in lawns... only in cropped ag fields...

Anyways, turfmd101, did an excellent job recognizing the point of the article and actually contributed his opinion about correct irrigation management... I have to say I agree with his ideas about what is correct... I might even move the discussion a little more forward and say that his management practice enhances soil structure and even microbial well-being...

I'm just reading my way through the winter months, locating and analysing various interesting, easy to understand articles about soil structure and maintaining healthy plants, as a result... If those people who know so much think I'm ignorant becuz of comments I make about what I've read,,, then discuss where I went wrong... this childish "Gotcha" foolishness, only serves to remind me of someone else who want to be an,...

Otherwise I appreciate those who help me to think things through and assimilate the abstract concepts that sometime allude the little gray cells...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #53  
Old 01-13-2013, 08:43 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I guess we got somebody that thinks he's clever enough to play "Gotcha", so nothing will ever make sense in this thread... imagine believing that irrigation waters never hit, puddle or disrupt soil structures in lawns... only in cropped ag fields...

Anyways, turfmd101, did an excellent job recognizing the point of the article and actually contributed his opinion about correct irrigation management... I have to say I agree with his ideas about what is correct... I might even move the discussion a little more forward and say that his management practice enhances soil structure and even microbial well-being...

I'm just reading my way through the winter months, locating and analysing various interesting, easy to understand articles about soil structure and maintaining healthy plants, as a result... If those people who know so much think I'm ignorant becuz of comments I make about what I've read,,, then discuss where I went wrong... this childish "Gotcha" foolishness, only serves to remind me of someone else who want to be an,...

Otherwise I appreciate those who help me to think things through and assimilate the abstract concepts that sometime allude the little gray cells...
Here's a discussion. How effective can an irrigation technician be if he/she has yet to acquire his/her L&O? Or imagine if they all understood horticulture on the level of a accomplished L&O technician...respectfully speaking...with regards to "proper irrigation" who would know best?
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  #54  
Old 01-13-2013, 08:59 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
Here's a discussion. How effective can an irrigation technician be if he/she has yet to acquire his/her L&O? Or imagine if they all understood horticulture on the level of a accomplished L&O technician...respectfully speaking...with regards to "proper irrigation" who would know best?
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That's like asking a plumber, how often you should flush the toilet or use the kitchen sink for dishes...

I don't know what an L&O is ,,, so I can't really put together the meaning of your question...

I remember Soil Science being a big part of Botany at University and it was a 'Prerequisite' to Horticulture back then... I guess nowdays we monitor soils with gizmos, so we never need to touch, feel or see the texture and structures...

Anyways, my guess would be that all things being equal, the tech with a clue about horticulture would certainly be someone to hire...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #55  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:23 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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My irrigation skills are very limited. I can trouble shoot OK and do common repairs. Stuff to keep it going. I also believe installing a system that same zones turf and ornamental is a oxymoron! How is this practice quantified. Am I wrong or am I more qualified because of my understanding of "proper irrigation" vs irrigation installation. I could not quantify my being licensed in L&O if I practiced horticulture without considering "proper irrigation" as a primary function. What gives?
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  #56  
Old 01-13-2013, 05:36 PM
Skipster Skipster is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I guess we got somebody that thinks he's clever enough to play "Gotcha", so nothing will ever make sense in this thread... imagine believing that irrigation waters never hit, puddle or disrupt soil structures in lawns... only in cropped ag fields...

Anyways, turfmd101, did an excellent job recognizing the point of the article and actually contributed his opinion about correct irrigation management... I have to say I agree with his ideas about what is correct... I might even move the discussion a little more forward and say that his management practice enhances soil structure and even microbial well-being...

I'm just reading my way through the winter months, locating and analysing various interesting, easy to understand articles about soil structure and maintaining healthy plants, as a result... If those people who know so much think I'm ignorant becuz of comments I make about what I've read,,, then discuss where I went wrong... this childish "Gotcha" foolishness, only serves to remind me of someone else who want to be an,...

Otherwise I appreciate those who help me to think things through and assimilate the abstract concepts that sometime allude the little gray cells...
Hold one there, Tex! There's no "gotcha" here -- you're misusing (or misunderstanding) the info! Info from production ag doesn't always apply the same way to lawns and landscapes! Irrigation water doesn't hit soil in lawns the same way that it hits bare soil in tilled crop fields. Soil structure means someting totally different in lawns than in crops. In crops, large clods in the field that make the surface bumpy and uneven are desirable. The same doesn't apply to lawns.

Turf md had a great point saying that areas with different soils or different plants can't all be watered the same way -- but that is so basic that I didn't think we needed to mention that here. Besides, your link doesn't mention it, either.

Anyone can google 'soil structure' and link to all sorts of articles. But, it takes some deeper understanding of soils to know how to apply the information to your particular application. Soil structure is a part of all types of plant production, but its role is different for ag crop production, lawn maintenance, and ornamental production. The exact procedures that benefit one application may not benefit another application.

Googling a topic, reading it, and regurgitating it is nothing more than repition -- monkey see, monkey do. Learning when and how to change behaviors to fit your particular application is true understanding.
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  #57  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:24 AM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Wow good to see the comments I have missed while away on Holiday.

Today was the 1st time ever with The Redwoods in California. Perhaps they will have some secrets to tell me in the coming days about the Soil Food Web............

Sumagreen, I hope you can answer some of the questions as we want a good organic product for our lawns.
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  #58  
Old 01-14-2013, 08:50 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
... I could not quantify my being licensed in L&O if I practiced horticulture without considering "proper irrigation" as a primary function. What gives?
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Still ain't sure what you're talking about here,,, but I would have to say that understanding Horticulture, including root environment, is only going to help... Even if L&O means 'Lawn Plumber' one would definately want to understand Horticulture...

An experience I had with your other point was 1 zone covered a sandy hillside full of perennials and shrubs, facing West, and the theflat shady lawn up on top of the hill... I did convince the client to get the Irrigation guy to come back and do it right...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #59  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:34 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heritage View Post
Wow good to see the comments I have missed while away on Holiday.

Today was the 1st time ever with The Redwoods in California. Perhaps they will have some secrets to tell me in the coming days about the Soil Food Web............

Sumagreen, I hope you can answer some of the questions as we want a good organic product for our lawns.
Have fun with the Redwoods... The soil food web around those guys should be hundreds of individual eco-systems blended together at various positions in the soil... How deep do the roots go into the ground for a redwood??? couple hundred feet???

Anyways, my only new thought about Sumagreen is that it must have a quick source delivery of N if your problem was excessive growth,,, but the question is long term impact... obviously the microbes are not going to be long term and whether the humic acids are going to stay in sandy soil is 'iffy' at best...

If you add compost, you'll have a long term benefit along with short term feeding frenzy... I've never noticed excessive growth with compost, regardless of the time of season in which it was applied, but I have noticed areas that are greener as a result... and the effect carries over year after year...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #60  
Old 06-15-2013, 12:33 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is online now
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Smallaxe, you're a smart guy. So, I'm sure you have long since determined that "L&O" stands for "Lawn & Ornamental".

That wasn't why I brought this old thread back to life though.

I brought it back up to see how lawns were doing for those using the product this season...So, lets hear it...

Results, good or bad

And the all important question...Are the customers happy?
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