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  #1  
Old 01-16-2013, 01:07 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Any Ol' Fertilizer Will Do

I do have some lawns in which the soil structure(platy at surface) is just unbelievable... I doubt seriously that water soluable N will even go into the soil and bind with any normal CE site... Once N is dissolved and taken in by the grass through water, I believe that the rest will just evaporate... This lawn can have standing water in the morning,,, then be black cloud dusty in the afternoon when mowing...

Is there any reason to bother with an expensive high quality fertilizer for a lawn like this???

OR,,, indeed is there such a thing as a Quality Fert vs. a Cheap Box Store 26-0-0???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #2  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:20 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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In the day of Lesco. There started a product line called Novex. The blends were all CTRN. It was a ureaformaldahide N source with a controlled timed released nitrogen. It was big bucks. Every pellet of fert was like a little bag of fert. Not a 50# blend of N-P-K with minors mixed in a bag. Every prill has everything. Great technology, to much $.

After following applications made with this product I found that turfgrass growing with stolons or rhizomes, each recover easily from blade damage (scalp & tear) as well as moderate foot traffic and environmental stresses. Turfgrass damaged purposely showed excellent recovery without reapplying product even after 6 week into application. How about not having to reapply for recovery. To bad it was considered too expensive. 3◊ the normal price but 1/3 the application frequency. Its all relative.

If you can find it under its current name unless it wasn't considered cost effective and no longer blended. It would possibly be your silver bullet.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:02 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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So it was spoon feeding the surface growth, where the stolons and rhizomes flourish... for cool season grasses that would mean KBG and Per. Ryegrasses... it will definately create a lot of Real Thatch that way, but still the roots will be thin and shallow...

I had gotten a boxstore slow-release fert in which the prills lasted through the winter... if I recall it was a 50% time release @ 40-0-0 analysis... It was supposed to be around 2 months, but the Fall was dry,,, however, under excessive irrigation those prills may continue to grow rapidly into thatch...

However,,, the lawnmower will pick those prills up from the platy barespots as easily as if we were mowing it off the driveway...
but then when the water soluable dissolves into the surface dirts or maybe just onto the surface,,, the mower will pick up that in the dust... these platy barespots really are about as smooth as sidewalk,,, and as large as heelprints over about 50% of the lawn... heelprint of dirt and a heelprint of grass, evenly dispersed over the entire lawn...

Do you have lawns that you look at and say,,, "Waste of Money, " and just throw out some cheap, whatever,,, because , "... the quality of the product will not make a bit of difference, in This Lawn???"
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*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:55 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
So it was spoon feeding the surface growth, where the stolons and rhizomes flourish... for cool season grasses that would mean KBG and Per. Ryegrasses... it will definately create a lot of Real Thatch that way, but still the roots will be thin and shallow...

I had gotten a boxstore slow-release fert in which the prills lasted through the winter... if I recall it was a 50% time release @ 40-0-0 analysis... It was supposed to be around 2 months, but the Fall was dry,,, however, under excessive irrigation those prills may continue to grow rapidly into thatch...

However,,, the lawnmower will pick those prills up from the platy barespots as easily as if we were mowing it off the driveway...
but then when the water soluable dissolves into the surface dirts or maybe just onto the surface,,, the mower will pick up that in the dust... these platy barespots really are about as smooth as sidewalk,,, and as large as heelprints over about 50% of the lawn... heelprint of dirt and a heelprint of grass, evenly dispersed over the entire lawn...

Do you have lawns that you look at and say,,, "Waste of Money, " and just throw out some cheap, whatever,,, because , "... the quality of the product will not make a bit of difference, in This Lawn???"
I have only potential customers I get an understanding of I say,,, "Waste of Energy" which = ?. I will not... because I can not...be the sole participator with the least time on site. If I have a potential customer,,, who can not comprehend,,, that their ownership in the success of their landscape is more necessary than the services I can provide then we will surly divorce at some point. Most divorces end in financial loss. One bad divorce is good lesson enough. Guess we won't get married.
But,,, if there is that grasp in understanding,,, that organic means alive, which requires sustaining beyond the use of tools. That would transfer a potential customer to a full time client.

My ability face to face far out shines my ability to type in thought. I seldom meet a potential client who through years of tailored, selective dialogue, that I have trouble getting to understand that their failure will without doubt cause my failure causing complete collapse.
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Last edited by turfmd101; 01-17-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2013, 12:34 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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A fertilizer is only as good as the soil that it goes onto... w/out a decent CEC and adequate air/water ratio,,, most of the NPK is irrelevant...

Does that make sense???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2013, 01:37 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
A fertilizer is only as good as the soil that it goes onto... w/out a decent CEC and adequate air/water ratio,,, most of the NPK is irrelevant...

Does that make sense???
Yes.

Why fert? Grass grows right, I,,,I mean,,,that's what it does right?

For me N mostly exhaust stored plant energy.
If mowing stopped forever,,, "turfgrass application company's exist because mowing company's exist". Applicators PUSH growth! Not SUPPLY it! If mowing ceased,,, they'd go out of business... All turfgrass health would remain because as important as manual watering for critical structure in the landscape,,, its need is outgrown with maturity...maturity resist pest alone.

If turf fertilizer applications stopped,,, mowing company's would survive.

Turf grass will mature and grow successfully on its own if you know how to help it do its thing,,, much more successfully than being pushed to do what its naturally doing anyway. Nothing desires to be forced. Nothing alive anyway...JMHO.

In Florida I see St. Aug growing in sidewalk cracks (long term), or 3 feet out into a lake or even in an abandoned lot,,, hard packed, all just left alone and GROWING!

I also agree with your soil purposes and I believe if most turf grass was just left alone to do what it genetically was born to do,,, even poor soil or poor soil conditions could be self defeated by turfgrass...

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  #7  
Old 01-20-2013, 02:30 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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In 2012, nearly 70% of the country suffered severe drought. USDA stated that much of the fertilizer farmers applied did not get used due to lack of rainfall. Just thought I'd mention this, cuz it tarted me thinking.
Does it always matter what type of fertilizer one applies? Maybe so. Maybe yes. Not sure really sure.

I never used to, but .... from now on, I will promote more core aeration (especially in the fall). During the past 2 or 3 years, most folks around here aerated lawns in August & September when we were still under drought conditions. Hard/dry soil - then only pulling out 1/2 inch plugs. But we always waited until we got rains to allow good plugs -- might be late October or even late November. I aerated my lawn in late November the past 2 years. Plenty of soil moisture, nice plugs, and even the weather was warm (just have to keep an eye on the forcast).

my 2 cents
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2013, 03:30 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
In 2012, nearly 70% of the country suffered severe drought. USDA stated that much of the fertilizer farmers applied did not get used due to lack of rainfall. Just thought I'd mention this, cuz it tarted me thinking.
Does it always matter what type of fertilizer one applies? Maybe so. Maybe yes. Not sure really sure.

I never used to, but .... from now on, I will promote more core aeration (especially in the fall). During the past 2 or 3 years, most folks around here aerated lawns in August & September when we were still under drought conditions. Hard/dry soil - then only pulling out 1/2 inch plugs. But we always waited until we got rains to allow good plugs -- might be late October or even late November. I aerated my lawn in late November the past 2 years. Plenty of soil moisture, nice plugs, and even the weather was warm (just have to keep an eye on the forcast).

my 2 cents
IMO,,, Yes it matters. Does the study indicate that specific nutrients did not get used? Fertilizer is many nutrients. Better to know which ones got wasted. I'm sure the drought ignited fight in the turf for survival,,, and enzymes from the root system said "we need something",,, "this environment's getting tough". "Properly modified irrigation practices are helping but I need proper nutrition for strength under these conditions,,, but not N because under severe drought I like to slow down for conservation of stored nutrients to survive this condition". "By the way I know the difference in sufficient rain fall and faking it with irrigation so know matter what you do I'll shut down enough to survive because I know this an environmental drought condition and I CAN SURVIVE". "You just have to help". "Don't try to force me". "I can do it, but you will not discover what my nutrient needs are currently looking on the bag analysis in a supply store of any type". Learn the specific combination of nutrients needed in surviving varied environmental conditions. Then I am sure nutrient waste will improve and nutrient specific fertilizers will hold optional value. Until then. FERT & SQUIRT & ROLE.
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2013, 09:32 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
In 2012, nearly 70% of the country suffered severe drought. USDA stated that much of the fertilizer farmers applied did not get used due to lack of rainfall. Just thought I'd mention this, cuz it tarted me thinking.
Does it always matter what type of fertilizer one applies? Maybe so. Maybe yes. Not sure really sure.

I never used to, but .... from now on, I will promote more core aeration (especially in the fall). During the past 2 or 3 years, most folks around here aerated lawns in August & September when we were still under drought conditions. Hard/dry soil - then only pulling out 1/2 inch plugs. But we always waited until we got rains to allow good plugs -- might be late October or even late November. I aerated my lawn in late November the past 2 years. Plenty of soil moisture, nice plugs, and even the weather was warm (just have to keep an eye on the forcast).

my 2 cents
I remember spreading liquid fertlizer on a lawn that didn't get much water after that... It took several months before the ground was wet enough again... At that time I noticed "Green Patterns" in the turf and realized that the lousy job I did covering with fertilizer was now showing through...
The N in the application was still in the turf,,, it just wasn't being taken up by the plants becuz it was too dry... How much 'volatized' during that dry spell,,, Who knows???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:05 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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Good point Smallaxe - always wondering how much of the "liquid" fert would be lost. We use Nutraflow liquid fert w/slow release. When work pants are white, stiff & crusty -- I figure there's some slow release in there. LOL

2 concerns I have with liquid fert = solar degredation & oxidation.
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