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  #21  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:41 PM
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LawnMastersTx LawnMastersTx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Program around it.

a = average flow
b = current flow
c = % deviation suspend
d = % deviation alert level 1
e = % deviation alert level 2
f = % deviation alert level 3
The system only allows one alert level for high flows. I can work with individual zones but I have over 106 controllers, doing individual zones would take a while to complete.
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  #22  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:46 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by LawnMastersTx View Post
The system only allows one alert level for high flows. I can work with individual zones but I have over 106 controllers, doing individual zones would take a while to complete.
You don't need to work inside the system. Export the data, do the calculations outside the system automatically. You could even set it up so you count the number of deviations in order to set or elevate an alert level. The alert levels determine the level of attention the alert gets based on the zone the alert occurs in. With a comprehensive georeferenced map of the system and installed hardware, determination of work orders based on the level of the alert and the potential problem in the zone would be relatively simple.

Point being, it can be done, and the potential water savings that can be achieved using checks should not be determined by the inability to work the data.
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  #23  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:56 PM
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LawnMastersTx LawnMastersTx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
You don't need to work inside the system. Export the data, do the calculations outside the system automatically. You could even set it up so you count the number of deviations in order to set or elevate an alert level. The alert levels determine the level of attention the alert gets based on the zone the alert occurs in. With a comprehensive georeferenced map of the system and installed hardware, determination of work orders based on the level of the alert and the potential problem in the zone would be relatively simple.

Point being, it can be done, and the potential water savings that can be achieved using checks should not be determined by the inability to work the data.
Great idea, one problem is our fluctuating PSI for the irrigation. Since not all of our meters are dedicated irrigation, when testing is going on in a lab at night or a chilling tower is in operation, our PSI is greatly effect. If I had a static PSI that I knew would remain constant on campus, then your idea would be great and I am still going to export the information and see what comes out of it. The problem with exporting it into a spreadsheet is that the zone already ran and the water has been wasted. If I keep the threshold at the 5 GPM and not use the check valves, when a break occurs, the system will shut off and the water will not be wasted. Last year we received only 5 calls of irrigation breaks during the night, 5 calls for the whole season.
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  #24  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:04 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by LawnMastersTx View Post
Great idea, one problem is our fluctuating PSI for the irrigation. Since not all of our meters are dedicated irrigation, when testing is going on in a lab at night or a chilling tower is in operation, our PSI is greatly effect. If I had a static PSI that I knew would remain constant on campus, then your idea would be great and I am still going to export the information and see what comes out of it. The problem with exporting it into a spreadsheet is that the zone already ran and the water has been wasted. If I keep the threshold at the 5 GPM and not use the check valves, when a break occurs, the system will shut off and the water will not be wasted. Last year we received only 5 calls of irrigation breaks during the night, 5 calls for the whole season.
You wouldn't export into a spreadsheet on a daily basis, but rather into a database in realtime, say every 30 secs or 1 minute or however often your data collection occurs. Then run your programmed routine against the database on whatever interval you want, then instruct the system to do what you want based on the result of the routine. It's just 1's and 0's man.

In order to deal with pressure fluctuations, you would need to also log pressure along with flow. With that data you could eliminate most of the non-break related pressure caused flow fluctuations.

Last edited by Kiril; 01-22-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:19 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Also, use the resources at your disposal. Given this is a University, perhaps you could get the school of computer sciences to program it for you ... FOC. The programming involved is rather simple. Personally if it were me, I would be using postgresql with postgis and a web based interface so you can get your pad interface to it.

Last edited by Kiril; 01-22-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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  #26  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Also, use the resources at your disposal. Given this is a University, perhaps you could get the school of computer sciences to program it for you ... FOC. The programming involved is rather simple. Personally if it were me, I would be using postgresql with postgis and a web based interface so you can get your pad interface to it.
The real time data collection is done within Calsense program and I am not sure if I have a way of accessing this information while the program is operating. If I was able to have access to each controller during operation then there would not be a problem but I am having to access through a HUB and then LR (low radio frequency) to each controller in the field. The time laps from my computer to a controller is 5-8 seconds. One controller would be possible, but not all 106 controllers unless they were linked to a central database. Calsense's database is on each controller which then sends the information the the server after the data has been collected.

Your method would intrigue central irrigation programmers on being able to handle fluctuating flows/pressure. Have you worked with any central irrigation systems out there?
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  #27  
Old 01-22-2013, 10:02 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by LawnMastersTx View Post
The real time data collection is done within Calsense program and I am not sure if I have a way of accessing this information while the program is operating. If I was able to have access to each controller during operation then there would not be a problem but I am having to access through a HUB and then LR (low radio frequency) to each controller in the field. The time laps from my computer to a controller is 5-8 seconds. One controller would be possible, but not all 106 controllers unless they were linked to a central database. Calsense's database is on each controller which then sends the information the the server after the data has been collected.

Your method would intrigue central irrigation programmers on being able to handle fluctuating flows/pressure. Have you worked with any central irrigation systems out there?
The data has to be stored somewhere, a central database is the most logical location, and is the easiest to work with and manage as well.

Since you have to work with the hub, then you will probably need to hack the Calsense software to do this. Some type of automated upload/download routine would be needed. Might be worth a call to Calsense engineers to see if they can work it. Might take more than some simple programming though.

My experience with central control at your scale is limited. I'm coming more from a programming/data management/irrigation management/water conservation aspect in this case.
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  #28  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:54 AM
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GrunderIrri GrunderIrri is offline
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I have to agree, that Toro clock and the valves I have had good luck with, but all the heads are junk. The super 8 and mini 8 where both to be huge game changers when they came out, but they are merely no more than junk, and as you experience the worst part of them is a weak spring and stiff seal causing them to stick. All in all the 570 is a decent spray but to get a good retracting you need to go with a PRX. If you want to keep the site with one manufacture I would go RainBird. On new installs that is all I use and have used, other than a Irritrol RS. RainBird 1800 series SAM's are excellent at retracting and hold adjustment very well, for the larger areas 5004's are great but you could step up to a 5500 series. 5500's are priced higher but are a truly commercial grade head. They are a pain to adjust at first until you get the hang of the left and right adjustment but they are a very rugged head. One last point to go along with everyone else is proper installation techniques and practices. From glue joints done properly to setting heads at the proper height and compacting around them as to the dont settle in a years time will do leaps and bounds for any system no matter what product used. Good luck and hopefully you can turn your nightmare into a joy to work on.
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  #29  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:04 PM
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1idejim 1idejim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnMastersTx View Post
We have a wide range of issues during the night. With 74,000 people on a given day there were broken heads/nozzles. I remember one day testing a zone and watching a student ram his bike into an active head with me standing 15 feet away. I asked him what was going on and he gave me a blank stare. We also have people stealing our nozzles, we use the MP's. Contractors are constantly hitting lines during the day. We also have valves that are over 50 years old still being used so our new system is catching valves that are either sticking on or very slow to turn off.

We have full input on selecting what was going in on campus. At first we were leading towards Rain Master, but once we saw the capabilities of Calsense, we decided on them.

I enjoy the Calsense system and being able to work with it every day. I am a data cruncher and the system gives me plenty of that and reports that I can easily understand. It has helped us discuss the idea with the city on instead of limiting us on the amount of days to water but to give us a budget based off square footage. We have just completed our first year of the trial program and the campus is green with a reduction of overall water use by 51-66% across campus.

The University of Texas does not endorse any product and my views on the materials used are of my own and not from the University.
The way your post sounds, you are the big Kahuna at UT so why do contractors dig your stuff up daily?

Put a stop to that by surveying the campus and creating limits.
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  #30  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:37 PM
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mitchgo mitchgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnMastersTx View Post
At the University of Texas we are using 1806 SAM PRS heads across campus and have not had a lot of problems with them. I have had a few heads chewed off due to squirrels, but no big problems other than that.

We have looked at the Hunter PRS but they come made with the check valve which does not work with our flow monitoring.
I literally just walked through most of this campus a week ago. Trying to check out the texas ladies you got down there. It's a nice school and as the irrigation I saw it seemed to be in good shape. Except I hate the warm season grass you have down there. lol. I was in San antonio and took a day trip to austin by myself.

I also checked out the history of texas museum and watched the hobbit in imax next door.
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