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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:15 AM
lawn2012start lawn2012start is offline
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Organic Supplements Effectiveness

I am going to start a post here to put all the supplements in one thread. I dont know maybe you guys dont care for this but this can be for the new guys who still have questions.

humate
kelp
shale
molasses
wormcastings
rock phosphate
bone meal
blood meal
cotton seed meal
alfalfa meal
corn gluten
fish
green tea


does any have an opinion as to real pros or cons as far as that is effective or a waste. there are people who just take all this and use it. is any of this more effective or granual or liquid.
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:13 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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This is the classic example for demonstrating the mindset of "Products" vs. "Soil Building"...

It should be noted that different organic apps, of different things, at different times, in different soils, will make the same results...

Do I want to apply humates to sandy soils that are weak in the OM dept.???
Do I need CT or bacterias added to a soil that has excellent soil structure with the premium Textural Blend???
Do I need AM Fungi for lawns over 3 years old???

In what state of affairs would you apply bone meal, or Green Tea to a lawn???

If Organics is all about * SOILS *, then why does soil Texture and Structure, NOT matter when considering the products to be used???

Organic applications BUILD the soil, but it doesn't seem to be understood HOW that happens and HOW to understand what you're starting with and WHAT is required to make the desired changes...
How do you say this is better than synthetics???
Its not, in fact it can become silly, especially when no results are noticeable... Think about it!!!

This post should only be offensive to those who refuse to acknowledge the importance of "Understanding' what constitutes the building of soils or even benefitting the roots...
If the OP is interested in understanding which products, for which conditions, then he'd have something to offer the NEWBIES...

Let's see if the discussion takes place or the bashing diverts it all again, or maybe there will be thousands of urls tossed out there that has answers, becuz people who can't answer,,, themselves, still feel the need to patricipate in the dilution of the idea,,, and a bunch or urls looks so intelligent...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:51 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
This is the classic example for demonstrating the mindset of "Products" vs. "Soil Building"...
No it is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
It should be noted that different organic apps, of different things, at different times, in different soils, will make the same results...
No it won't

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
If Organics is all about * SOILS *, then why does soil Texture and Structure, NOT matter when considering the products to be used???
Who said it didn't, except you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Organic applications BUILD the soil, but it doesn't seem to be understood HOW that happens and HOW to understand what you're starting with and WHAT is required to make the desired changes...
Again, who said this, except you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
How do you say this is better than synthetics???
Its not, in fact it can become silly, especially when no results are noticeable... Think about it!!!
Thinking ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
This post should only be offensive to those who refuse to acknowledge the importance of "Understanding' what constitutes the building of soils or even benefitting the roots...
If the OP is interested in understanding which products, for which conditions, then he'd have something to offer the NEWBIES...

Let's see if the discussion takes place or the bashing diverts it all again, or maybe there will be thousands of urls tossed out there that has answers, becuz people who can't answer,,, themselves, still feel the need to patricipate in the dilution of the idea,,, and a bunch or urls looks so intelligent...
It is always amusing to watch you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:54 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawn2012start View Post
I am going to start a post here to put all the supplements in one thread
Keep working on it. Your list is not complete.

Looking at the list again, technically shale and rock phosphate are not organic supplements. Also amendments would probably be a better term to use vs. supplements.

Last edited by Kiril; 01-27-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:38 PM
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kennc38 kennc38 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Let's see if the discussion takes place or the bashing diverts it all again, or maybe there will be thousands of urls tossed out there that has answers, becuz people who can't answer,,, themselves, still feel the need to patricipate in the dilution of the idea,,, and a bunch or urls looks so intelligent...
And YOU are accusing others of diverting the discussion??? Good grief, you completely hijacked the OP's thread and expect everyone to answer YOUR questions and not the OP's?? Why don't YOU try conributing to the OP's discussion rather than starting your own and then whining when nobody wants to play along??
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:30 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by kennc38 View Post
And YOU are accusing others of diverting the discussion??? Good grief, you completely hijacked the OP's thread and expect everyone to answer YOUR questions and not the OP's?? Why don't YOU try conributing to the OP's discussion rather than starting your own and then whining when nobody wants to play along??
OK... My Mistake... I am going to the back of the Bus while you ANSWER the OP which of these "products" are good and which of these products are not so good.. then me,,, and my ignorant self,,, will ask the question WHY,,, and you'll have nothing to say... Prove Me Wrong...

Go ahead , friend,, and give us the true answer to the OP's question...

I obviously,,, dropped the ball on this one...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #7  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:52 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Keep working on it. Your list is not complete.

Looking at the list again, technically shale and rock phosphate are not organic supplements. Also amendments would probably be a better term to use vs. supplements.
Interesting point... Would rock phosphate or shale, benefit the soils in the Midwest??? would they benefit the soils in District 9??? would they benefit the soils of the OP's home town??? Does it matter??? are you offering any kind of answer??? or are you telling the OP that he's wrong???

Most people I know would look at a bag of phosphate as a supplement, but they wouldn't make ISSUE as to whether it is an ammendment or a supplement... most people I know make a living by knowing the difference(but that is niether here nor there)

Everyone I know tends to try and figure out whether it is a good thing for the ground ,,, or NOT...

I believe that is the essence of the question...

Give us, all,,, ONE REASON,,, why rock phosphate may or may not, be beneficial... then I'll say,,, "Whoops... I overstepped my bounds"...
Even an example would be great...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:53 PM
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kennc38 kennc38 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
OK... My Mistake... I am going to the back of the Bus while you ANSWER the OP which of these "products" are good and which of these products are not so good.. then me,,, and my ignorant self,,, will ask the question WHY,,, and you'll have nothing to say... Prove Me Wrong...

Go ahead , friend,, and give us the true answer to the OP's question...

I obviously,,, dropped the ball on this one...
Here we go down Smalls road of infinite questions again. YOU didn't answer which of these products are good and which ones aren't either, now did YOU?? But instead, as always, you choose to post more questions and post information that evidently isn't true as pointed about Kiril above. Why don't you address Kiril's points raised above? But I guess you'll continue to whine about how everyone is picking on you about your ignorance and accusing everyone else of digressing from the topic of the first post.
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:02 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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If I was to say that applying humates to lawn "A" made a significant difference,,, but couldn't explain Why it happened,,, then it would be just as foolish to say that "applying humates to Lawn 'B' made No difference and NOT being able to explain Why to that response...

One thing that IS SURE, is that humates do NOT do the same thing to every lawn across the continental USA... any more than 'fish emulsion' will have the same result in every lawn across the USA... any more than rock phosphate or shale would have the same impact in every soil across the USA... it is silly for some one on the other side of the country to tell me that I need to add anythingthing to my soil,,, when in truth my soil is already overloaded with it...

Can anyone think that soils are not the same and as a result different soils need different things to become vibrant living organisms??? This bashing and condescension is becoming a law unto itself...
If I'm not responding correctly to the OP, then YOU show me how its done... Why are you talking to me anyways??? I have no reason to talk to you...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #10  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:07 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennc38 View Post
Here we go down Smalls road of infinite questions again. YOU didn't answer which of these products are good and which ones aren't either, now did YOU?? But instead, as always, you choose to post more questions and post information that evidently isn't true as pointed about Kiril above. Why don't you address Kiril's points raised above? But I guess you'll continue to whine about how everyone is picking on you about your ignorance and accusing everyone else of digressing from the topic of the first post.
We are all still waiting for your intelligent response, to the OP... forget that I'm alive and just respond to the OP... I'm wrong and your right, but the OP doesn't have an answer to his question...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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