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  #51  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:46 PM
Triton37 Triton37 is offline
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This kind of feedback is what I was looking for. Thanks Bryan. I will plan on sampling it this year to see for ourselves. My concern is that we have been using Naturesafe organics at .8# rates/ 1000 so our properties look great but that has come with a cost of about $1.89/1000. Looks like with Holganix we will see $1.10/1000 costs and also save time on cleanup which could be huge. But what if there is a noticed reduction in quality between this transition that the client experiences? This is where we can only know by practicing with it. It's not like this is Imprellis or another DuPont product.
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  #52  
Old 01-29-2013, 03:47 PM
rusty2 rusty2 is offline
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Smallaxe,
Sorry for the delay in my reply. I wasn't watching this thread. Umaxx contains a urease enzyme inhibitor and dicyandiamide a nitrification bacterium inhibitor. Holganix advised me not to use these types of products with theirs. Holganix adds bacteria to the soil and encourages microbial activity and anything that would decrease bacterial activity should not be used. They believe that other bacteria may be inhibited by the dicyandiamide as well so they want to leave it out.
Rusty
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  #53  
Old 01-29-2013, 03:57 PM
Triton37 Triton37 is offline
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>Turf Hokie. Bryan, do you guys use Z-sprays or just pull hoses for the Holganix applications?
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  #54  
Old 01-29-2013, 05:45 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Thanks for the reply... my search on 'dicyandiamide', has led me to this about Agrotain in which dicyandiamide is one of three methods of stabilizing urea...

* "Agrotain is both a company name and a product name. Agrotain International makes ag products that protect urea fertilizer from loss." *


* "If urea is incorporated, the ammonia is converted to ammonium and will be retained in the soil. But if the urea is left on the surface, much of the ammonia will be lost to the atmosphere." *


So if I'm understanding this correctly, the technology in Holganix , may or may not be the same as one of the Agrotain technologies, but the possibility of these technologies interfering with one another is an issue...

Anyways we now have some science that is giving us hope that we are dealing with something real... We all tend to think Snake Oil when some of these products are announced... maybe not this time...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #55  
Old 01-29-2013, 06:27 PM
rusty2 rusty2 is offline
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Not exactly, the technology in Holganix is completely the opposite of the one in the Agrotain products (Hydrexx, Umaxx and Uflexx).

Holganix contains bacteria (along with many other things) that are able to make nitrogen available in the soil and the Agrotain products contain a material that inhibits bacteria from doing their jobs in the soil (breaking down urea to make it available).

The possibility of them interfering with each other is almost 100%.

I agree with the last statement. We have been analyzing this product for over a year. It shows promise. I like the way they are positioning it as a bridge product that can reduce other chemicals being used and not a cure all. We are going to try it in a bigger way this year. Did some tests last fall that looked good.
Rusty
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  #56  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:08 PM
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turf hokie turf hokie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton37 View Post
>Turf Hokie. Bryan, do you guys use Z-sprays or just pull hoses for the Holganix applications?
Using a z max and in the process of setting up an intermediate.
They are the only way to go. Others may argue that it is faster to pull hose on some lawns but my max is set up with a lawn gun and 100 ft of hose so I can get just about anywhere with the max.

Biggest reason I would say is I am not really any more tired on the last lawn as opposed to when I started out pulling hose, my production steadily declined over the course of the day. I can easily double my production with the z vs pulling hose

I am setting up the intermediate b/c I found it locally and felt it was a good deal so I grabbed it.
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  #57  
Old 01-30-2013, 04:49 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty2 View Post
Not exactly, the technology in Holganix is completely the opposite of the one in the Agrotain products (Hydrexx, Umaxx and Uflexx).

Holganix contains bacteria (along with many other things) that are able to make nitrogen available in the soil and the Agrotain products contain a material that inhibits bacteria from doing their jobs in the soil (breaking down urea to make it available).

The possibility of them interfering with each other is almost 100%.

I agree with the last statement. We have been analyzing this product for over a year. It shows promise. I like the way they are positioning it as a bridge product that can reduce other chemicals being used and not a cure all. We are going to try it in a bigger way this year. Did some tests last fall that looked good.
Rusty
Thanks again,,, I evidently confused myself looking over a number of different articles and got the notion that Holganix stabilizes N in it useable form,,, but now I can't find that information...

That sounds like Agrotain all the way...

This BTW, is why I like the intelligent discussion of the forum...
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*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #58  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:41 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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There was a 3rd product in my research that I confused with Holganix...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #59  
Old 02-04-2013, 11:41 PM
cdqat1432 cdqat1432 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf hokie View Post
Using a z max and in the process of setting up an intermediate.
They are the only way to go. Others may argue that it is faster to pull hose on some lawns but my max is set up with a lawn gun and 100 ft of hose so I can get just about anywhere with the max.

Biggest reason I would say is I am not really any more tired on the last lawn as opposed to when I started out pulling hose, my production steadily declined over the course of the day. I can easily double my production with the z vs pulling hose

I am setting up the intermediate b/c I found it locally and felt it was a good deal so I grabbed it.
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I am glad that holganix and zspray came up because i just went to a seminar about holganix. I am currently at a point where i need either a rider or another applicator, truck, tank,etc. The salesman suggested we use his program for everything under 2 acres and then the regular program for bigger than that. I can't afford to run 2 different programs out of the same truck and i certainly can't justify a zspray if my guy has to pull a hose on half of the accounts. What do i do? I also use the truck for ornamental and industrial veg spraying, so time is short as it is.
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  #60  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:38 AM
Triton37 Triton37 is offline
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Yes I agree with you Smallaxe about having intelligent discussions. Since Holganix can't supply 1,2 and 3 year pictures of lawns treated using their product we are all left to figure out expectations and by no means am I about to invest in fleet changes without knowing how results will look at the end of one season. We're so accustomed to gauging measurable results within 2-3 weeks or at most 5 weeks therefore I can't even justify converting one machine right now. If it takes 30-40 minutes to swap out the tank on a Z-spray we're creating chaos within the routes which is why some are choosing to treat their entire route with the product versus only the organic ones and there's no way I'm going to set up two different systems on one truck.
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