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  #21  
Old 02-04-2013, 11:56 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I see exactly what you are saying, and you are correct...

QUOTE:

1) Max Power (hp) and Max Torque (lbs ft) specifications for Kohler general purpose engines are rated pursuant to Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1940 based on gross output testing performed according to SAE J1995 without the air cleaner and muffler. Actual engine power and torque are lower and affected by accessories (air cleaner, exhaust, charging, cooling, fuel pump, etc.), application, engine speed, ambient operating conditions (temperature, humidity and altitude) and other factors. This J1940 / J1995 rating provides consistent measurement to customers who may want to control the intake and exhaust features of the engine. For more information, contact Kohler Co. Engine Engineering Department. Kohler Co. reserves the right to change product specifications, designs and standard equipment without notice and without incurring obligation.

I am now wondering if Kawasaki is giving correct hp, and honestly don't see how they could unless their engine it is checked with all accessories attached, and knowing all applications are different.

I would think the only fair way hp could be advertised would be if the engine was checked with the air cleaner and muffler attached. We all know you can generate more hp with the air cleaner out, and no muffler.

I would love to hear feedback from someone running the same machine with both engines. I doubt there would be a great deal of difference in feel of power, fuel injection just makes for a stronger and more responsive feeling engine.
puppy-
I am not sure if it is still in their writings on this subject, but Kawi was stating in their little piece they had posted on their site about the Critical Power rating, that they were being tested by the group over in Germany, and engines were set up as they would be while in real applications with airbox/filter, and muffler.
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Originally Posted by Darryl G
I can also tell by looking back to see how they're hanging and often reach back and feel them to see how firm they are.
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  #22  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:04 AM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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I wonder why Kohler would not follow what Kawasaki has done so everyone could be on the same page...this can be somewhat confusing to the buying public. I sure wish someone could explain the reasoning from Kohler's point of view. The end user only wishes to see in hard numbers exactly what they are paying for, and I believe this is what Kawasaki is now attempting to provide. I just have a hard time understanding why one engine manufacturer would provide hp information gathered from one testing procedure, and one from another.
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  #23  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:26 AM
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clydebusa clydebusa is offline
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Have the Kohler EFI on two 72" and love it. And like several have stated will convert all to EFI eventually.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2013, 10:39 AM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Originally Posted by clydebusa View Post
Have the Kohler EFI on two 72" and love it. And like several have stated will convert all to EFI eventually.
I love the efi technology, but there have been many scared of trying efi due to fear of the unknown. I have never really understood this for the fact everyone has the same technolgy used in the vehicles they drive everyday, and would never go back to a carburetor mechanical governor setup.

I've been running the Kohler, Bosch efi system since 2006, and have loved everything about it. The new Delphi components Kohler is now implementing are supposedly the best in the industry, the same as used in our vehicle fuel injection. I feel assured you have the new Delphi system, and once anyone ever owns and operates a mower with fuel injection, they never wish to return to the old style fuel delivery.

I have checked a preciously owned Kohler 27 hp engine on the same mower as my 28 efi, and the fuel savings due to the fuel injection was 25 to 30% constantly. The 27 was at 1.3 to 1.4 gph, and I have checked the 28 efi down to .93 gph. The check I did was to physically measure the height of gas in the tank at full, then fill back to the exact same height by ounces; after cutting exactly one measured hour, meaning my check was very accurate.
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2013, 12:24 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I wonder why Kohler would not follow what Kawasaki has done so everyone could be on the same page...this can be somewhat confusing to the buying public. I sure wish someone could explain the reasoning from Kohler's point of view. The end user only wishes to see in hard numbers exactly what they are paying for, and I believe this is what Kawasaki is now attempting to provide. I just have a hard time understanding why one engine manufacturer would provide hp information gathered from one testing procedure, and one from another.
I'm not sure this will answer your question well enough puppy, but last summer one of the members here sent Kohler an e-mail while we were having a similar discussion about the new ratings system regarding Kawi's vs Kohler etc. He posted the reply from Kohler and it was something very close to this-
"We have always rated the true hp of our engines and follow the current guidlines....etc etc", followed by something along the lines of "we continue to offer our customers the best that they can buy...." type of PR blather. Their reply got several people kinda wired up since it was a typical "cover our butt" type of reply.

I belive they knew they'd have to eventually make the switch in rating systems to avoid losing potential sales, but have tried to make it slowly enough to be able to sell off all remaining inventory of old rating labeled engines already crated and stored. Once that supply is gone, they will most likely switch completely over to the new rating numbers. JMO
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Originally Posted by Darryl G
I can also tell by looking back to see how they're hanging and often reach back and feel them to see how firm they are.
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2013, 07:43 PM
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ELS Landscape ELS Landscape is offline
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At the price of gas today, how many hours do you have to run the unit to recover the up cost?
Meaning, I am not going to sell a 1/2 used mower to get better consumption.
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  #27  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:28 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Originally Posted by ELS Landscape View Post
At the price of gas today, how many hours do you have to run the unit to recover the up cost?
Meaning, I am not going to sell a 1/2 used mower to get better consumption.
It depends on the dealer price difference...I talked with the Bobcat factory and was told they did not offer the carburetor version of the big block Kawasaki for the fact from doing their own fuel study; they found a difference from 2 gph on the FX1000V (carburetor model), to less than 1.5 gph on the FX1000V-DFI (fuel injected model). They said to them this was a no brainer, especially since they got a good price break from buying so many of the DFI model.

From what they are saying, you could expect 1/2 gph less fuel useage from the DFI, and probably more. They said some of their studies had shown a drop all the way to 1.25 gph.

Lets just use the 1/2 gph less consumption as an example.

8 hr. cutting day you would save 4 gal., this times, lets say $3.50 would equal a savings of $14 per day. Say you can run 32 weeks per cutting season at 40 hrs. per week, this is 32 wks. x 40 hrs. = 1280 hrs. mowing time. Saving $70 per week x 32 wks. = $2240.00 / Just saying for instance the DFI engine option cost $700.00 more than the carburetor model, it would take 10 weeks to pay the difference, but the savings from that point forward would be very significant.
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  #28  
Old 02-06-2013, 12:06 PM
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JDGlandscape JDGlandscape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clydebusa View Post
Have the Kohler EFI on two 72" and love it. And like several have stated will convert all to EFI eventually.
How are they powerwise for such a big mower? I am trying to find out if they would be powerful enough to use on a 60" cut with a bagger
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