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Old 03-06-2013, 09:33 AM
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lilmarvin4064 lilmarvin4064 is offline
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Tupersan ? people still use that stuff? You could apply some Tenacity as a pre-m. MUCH cheaper.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:00 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Rick13 View Post
Grass seed won't germinate unless the ground temperature is 50 degrees. Yes, the air temperature will vary, and you want your crabgrass control down when the temps. start reaching 60 degrees for air temps.

The organic compost to cover the seed, makes a great growing protects your seed from getting washed away, from hungry birds wanting to eat it, holds moisture for better germination, and works as a starter fertilizer to promote growth new grass growth.

I think you should be able to spread your Pre-M down, and as long as you break the soil up (or not spread in those areas), then you should be able to plant your new grass seed.
I agree that compost is just about as perfect a seeding medium as one could imagine... I agree in the 'starter fertilizer' comment as well...

But your first statement about germination and temperature, seems to be self contradictory... the comment about 'soil temps' being around 50 degrees for cool-season grasses seem to be an accepted number,,, so no problem with that clause...
We may very well reach air temps in the 60s tomorrow with 2 feet of snow on frozen turf, so why would the concept of "Air Temps" even come in the discussion about CG germination???

The general concensus for CG germination doesn't start until the soil temps reach 55 degrees...
And I would not rely on "breaking up the soil" to prevent your seedlings from ingesting the pre-m chemical and killing the root of the seedlings... breaking up the soil does not eliminate the chemical from surface layer of lawn...

Where I live,,, Spring usually allows us to mow by mid-April and CG doesn't seem to be an issue until June or later... that gives us all the way up to Memorial Weekend to put down CG pre-m and the cool-season grasses should be at least 3 weeks old by then...

Of course barren and sandy slopes that bake in the sun day after day, will require different care techniques but those extremes shouldn't dictate the care given to the rest of the lawn...
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:32 PM
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RigglePLC RigglePLC is online now
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Last year when I collected crabgrass seed--and planted it inside--I got no emergence when my indoor temp was kept at 68 degrees in winter.
My outdoor experience is that crab emerges when the air temp hits about 80. The first week of May around here--usually.
Or...if you believe the Scotts the directions on the bag: "Apply Halts crabgrass control between the second and fifth mowing." Of course, they are talking about cool season grasses.

Our first mowing is about late April around here. I think the Scotts plan would be a little late.

Naturally, I always applied crabgrass control well in advance of the critical date...due to the need to cover all my client's lawns before the critical date.
I cold find no reference to soil temp or application dates or mowings on my labels for Dimension or Pendimethalin.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:39 PM
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Exact Rototilling Exact Rototilling is offline
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We might as well bring up the 24D factor with an oversees program.

Riggles, have you ever experimented with seeding right after application of herbicides...?

Popular dry consumer products that a homeowner puts down...?

Also is it not true the dry weed and feed contains a higher amount of 24D and is thus less environmentally conscious...?
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:47 PM
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RigglePLC RigglePLC is online now
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I have experimented with seed after herbicide use. However I cannot find the info (messy desk) or the links to the discussions and photos on this site. Still looking.

And yes, I think that weed and feed products like consumer brands use a higher rate of 2,4-D as they need a bit more to compensate for the particles that do not adhere to the weeds.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:00 PM
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RigglePLC RigglePLC is online now
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I cannot find the original links and photos...but...when I sprayed new seeded grass when it was only about 3 inches tall: there was no damage from Lesco Eliminate, (similar to Horsepower)--except that there was a slight curving effect on the grass seedlings treated at 4 times the normal rate. T-zone caused a more pronounced curving and some brown grass seedlings, especially at the four times rate. These grass seedlings were treated at only 7 days after sowing the seed. Germination and emergence was remarkably fast. Some had been soaked as a seed pre-treatment before planting. Soil temp was very high, air temps were about 90. Tests done in flower pots.

I treated some pots of soil with Dimension dithiopyr and no seed would sprout. However, after 82 days perennial rye sprouted with only slight injury. That is about 3 months or 12 weeks.

New perennial rye seedlings at about 23 days old, (3 inches tall) were treated with Dimension (dithiopyr), There was no injury. Temperatures were warm and conditions were ideal for rapid germination. The rate of Dimension was only approximate. I used 4 particles of Shaws 23-0-8 with .13% Dimension in plastic cups, outdoors.

So far, I cannot find the original posts and the photos.
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