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  #31  
Old 03-17-2013, 03:36 AM
herler herler is online now
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Posts: 2,729
Many years ago, manufacturers realized it was cheaper and more efficient to have robotic arms process the materials in the assembly line, however there was a flaw coming that few foresaw... We tried to tell them, computers would never replace humans because artificial intelligence lacks the reasoning element, and it can not predict humanly foreseeable consequences.

But, they wouldn't listen.

Unlike last century when humans would assemble the machines, today most assembly lines are operated by robotic arms that complete the machine assembly process. When the process first started, humans were used to 'train' these robots in the fine tuning process, and all went well... But that was only so because the humans who did the fine tuning had just recently been a physical part of the assembly process themselves, they were in fact, past assembly line workers... They knew what they were doing, they knew the intricacies and flaws of the machines and thus fine tuned the robots to adjust to the imperfections themselves.

Today, few humans exist who have physically assembled a machine.
And the tune has been lost, the experience that is used when something won't fit quite right no longer exists...
I know, I've worked on an assembly line, physically putting machines together...
Trust me, it's almost never 100% according to plan, no two machines are even exactly alike, yet the robots assemble as if they were.

Today we fine tune the robots from notes left by our ancestors, mere numbers that spell out specifications, year after year...
Little imperfections have crept in, at first nobody noticed but now there exist no work-arounds.

Today every year the machines are looser, more and more mechanical imperfections keep creeping in.
Because nobody is at the helm anymore.

When automatic pilots drive the ship, sooner or later it hits an iceberg it could not see.

Last edited by herler; 03-17-2013 at 03:44 AM.
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  #32  
Old 03-17-2013, 07:09 AM
GMLC's Avatar
GMLC GMLC is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 4,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by herler View Post
Many years ago, manufacturers realized it was cheaper and more efficient to have robotic arms process the materials in the assembly line, however there was a flaw coming that few foresaw... We tried to tell them, computers would never replace humans because artificial intelligence lacks the reasoning element, and it can not predict humanly foreseeable consequences.

But, they wouldn't listen.

Unlike last century when humans would assemble the machines, today most assembly lines are operated by robotic arms that complete the machine assembly process. When the process first started, humans were used to 'train' these robots in the fine tuning process, and all went well... But that was only so because the humans who did the fine tuning had just recently been a physical part of the assembly process themselves, they were in fact, past assembly line workers... They knew what they were doing, they knew the intricacies and flaws of the machines and thus fine tuned the robots to adjust to the imperfections themselves.

Today, few humans exist who have physically assembled a machine.
And the tune has been lost, the experience that is used when something won't fit quite right no longer exists...
I know, I've worked on an assembly line, physically putting machines together...
Trust me, it's almost never 100% according to plan, no two machines are even exactly alike, yet the robots assemble as if they were.

Today we fine tune the robots from notes left by our ancestors, mere numbers that spell out specifications, year after year...
Little imperfections have crept in, at first nobody noticed but now there exist no work-arounds.

Today every year the machines are looser, more and more mechanical imperfections keep creeping in.
Because nobody is at the helm anymore.

When automatic pilots drive the ship, sooner or later it hits an iceberg it could not see.
This may be the first time I have to agree with Topsites!!

There is a certain feel a human has when assembling and especially welding a machine. Robots never get tired and can repeat the same task over and over. But they can not replace a good human due to many variables. I have had the pleasure of inspected thousands of welds as a certified quality control inspector to prove this. The problem is finding quality people and not over working them. Its more expensive and takes more time but I feel the end product is well worth it.
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  #33  
Old 03-17-2013, 12:45 PM
Lane Lane is offline
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Location: Gonzales, LA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grassman177 View Post
you guys and your horror stories, never had anything but one rear main seal after 1000hrs. they are stout machines. all our dealings with kubota, they even warrantied out of date items for us. i will always question true maint kept in most of these instances.
So you question "true maintenance kept in most of these instances"? I question if you fully read all of the text of the posters on this thread!

What lack of maintenance exactly do you suppose could cause seal carrier plate bolts to break off flush with the engine blocks or become loosened or a seal that should last 2500 hours fail in less that 300? Please be specific.

What I question is why Kubota is so adamant about keeping this under cover. It IS apparent they have been experimenting with different seal arrangements and now (like on my unit in March 2013) the fix kit includes a whole new sleeve insert that goes into the block first which effectively creates a smaller distance between the new seal's ID and OD measurements. The fix kit a year ago did not have this sleeve but rather an improved hardened surface seal. What's that all about? Seems Kubota is still working to find the best solution and I applaud them for that. Why they make customers pay for the failed designs baffles me.

My unit (which is the only one I can speak for) has had ALL factory specified maintenance done AHEAD of the recommend time intervals. I have been the only driver driver and it is used privately to mow my groomed lawn acreage. I can assure you I have babied this $12k lawnmower hoping it would last me for decades, like my tractors do. After all, that is why I spent the extra bucks buying a diesel with a shaft drive in the first place.
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  #34  
Old 03-17-2013, 07:30 PM
MSS Mow MSS Mow is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane View Post
My dealer replaced the rear seal and the parts were in fact different than stock. Much different. A new sleeve assembly ships with the seal replacement kit among other variances. The dealer service tech did a great job and I have no complaints with their quality of work nor their shop rates but...

...Kubota did not cover ANY of the cost, parts nor labor. About $700 all said and done for a repair on a current model with less than 300 hours. I had hoped for some participation from Kubota since this IS a widespread known issue.

Oh well, I guess I have been spoiled by my Mitsubishi tractor which now has about 2500 hours on it. It's thirty-one years old and has never been in a shop. Solid as the day I bought it and does not leak a drop!
Sorry to hear Kubota did not help. They were extremely helpful in all of my situations. Both dealer and Kubota rep.
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2012 GMC 3500HD
9'2" Boss Power V Snowplow
Sno-Ex Sand Pro
2001 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel
9'2" Boss Power VXT Snowplow
1.75 yard sander
2013 22' Suretrac HD Skid Steer trailer
2012 24' Suretrac HD Deckover trailer
2011 72" Kubota ZD331 Diesel
2009 60" Kubota ZD331 Diesel (with bagger)
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  #35  
Old 04-04-2013, 03:56 PM
LwnmwrMan22 LwnmwrMan22 is offline
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  #36  
Old 04-06-2013, 12:35 PM
kgs1 kgs1 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: hulbert,mi
Posts: 88
I was thinking of buying a Kubota zd331 w/72" cut, maybe this spring, & I know the dealer good & also cut his two properties that he has in the area. I did demo one & like it alot but only put 10 hrs on it..However, after reading this thread, I'll have to look into it some more. I read somewhere in this thread that they had a kit w/harder seal & stronger holder or something like that so maybe sounds like they are at least aware of the problem but just cant seem to get the manufacturer to step up!?!I will definetly call & talk to him about this & see what if anything they are doing about it...from what I gather its a nice machine other than this problem...
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  #37  
Old 04-06-2013, 09:59 PM
Lane Lane is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gonzales, LA
Posts: 18
Kgs1, the machine's performance is awesome, that is not questioned. If your dealer tells you he's never heard of a rear seal issue or that it has been resolved on new models ask him to put in writing on your sales invoice a zero cost repair coupon valued at up to $700 should your rear engine seal begin leaking prior to 400 running hours. Show him this thread if he wants to know why you want him to do that.
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  #38  
Old 04-06-2013, 10:13 PM
Lane Lane is offline
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Posts: 18
MSS Mow, I have had good experiences with them in the past but not so much on this issue.
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  #39  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:04 AM
MSS Mow MSS Mow is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgs1 View Post
I was thinking of buying a Kubota zd331 w/72" cut, maybe this spring, & I know the dealer good & also cut his two properties that he has in the area. I did demo one & like it alot but only put 10 hrs on it..However, after reading this thread, I'll have to look into it some more. I read somewhere in this thread that they had a kit w/harder seal & stronger holder or something like that so maybe sounds like they are at least aware of the problem but just cant seem to get the manufacturer to step up!?!I will definetly call & talk to him about this & see what if anything they are doing about it...from what I gather its a nice machine other than this problem...
The dealer and manufacturer both stepped up in my cases. Not sure why they didn't in the others as they sound as though they had the exact same problem.
__________________


2012 GMC 3500HD
9'2" Boss Power V Snowplow
Sno-Ex Sand Pro
2001 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel
9'2" Boss Power VXT Snowplow
1.75 yard sander
2013 22' Suretrac HD Skid Steer trailer
2012 24' Suretrac HD Deckover trailer
2011 72" Kubota ZD331 Diesel
2009 60" Kubota ZD331 Diesel (with bagger)
Stihl trimmers, echo PAS
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  #40  
Old 04-07-2013, 12:02 PM
kgs1 kgs1 is offline
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great stuff guys! thanks for the info...he quote me around 14000.00 for this mower (zd331 w/72" deck) & also can put a down payment of around 2000.00 myself so it would bring it to 12000.00...I do lawn service for the guy who owns the dealership (2 lawns) 110.00 each time I cut & he said what we could do if I like is this: instead of me,,he could put 2000.00 down out of his own pocket & we would put that towards the cost of doing his lawns. I do them (cabins) every other week or so 10 to 12 cuts a year..so would be close to 2 summers or so of cutting...takes me about 1 1/2 hours to do now with a 61" for both & would be able to make better time with the Kubota...also I can get a Bobcat 37 hp kaw w/72" for 11000.00 from another dealer in lower mich..(300 miles or 5 hrs away) Kubota dealer is 1 1/2 hrs away (no brainer there) as far as warrantys go! What do you guys think of this deal with Kubota ??? any & all Info/suggestions would be greatly apprieciated thanks!
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