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  #11  
Old 04-19-2013, 12:15 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is offline
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West, Texas

1.6 sq miles

Population of 2,800--less now

I can't find any info on how many calls they have, but you can bet it isn't many. The entire county only has 240,000 residents, roughly. That does not translate to many calls which translates to full time staff for fire.

For that matter, do you know that they didn't have a full time fire chief slowleak?
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2013, 12:45 PM
slowleak1 slowleak1 is offline
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I said "at the least"

In this case what they DID NOT have is what got several brave men killed. I bet the county takes over fire protection for west after this.
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2013, 02:25 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowleak1 View Post
I said "at the least"

In this case what they DID NOT have is what got several brave men killed. I bet the county takes over fire protection for west after this.
And again, how do you know they didn't have "at least" one?

Can you verify that by not having one, that is what caused this tragedy?

None of us still have any real info about what happened. But hey, keep up the guessing and speculating based on nothing substantive.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2013, 02:51 PM
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Turf Dawg Turf Dawg is offline
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I heard a report that the TDA said they had 120 tons of Ammonium Nitrate at the plant.

I do not know anything about bombs or fires, but if something like 1 ton (do not remember how much) did that much damage in OKC then 120 tons must have been one heck of a blast. It is terrible that anyone lost their lives but I guess it might be a blessing that more did not.
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2013, 02:55 PM
slowleak1 slowleak1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
And again, how do you know they didn't have "at least" one?

Can you verify that by not having one, that is what caused this tragedy?

None of us still have any real info about what happened. But hey, keep up the guessing and speculating based on nothing substantive.
You said they were volunteer, did you not?
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  #16  
Old 04-19-2013, 02:58 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowleak1 View Post
You said they were volunteer, did you not?
Yup, volunteer FD, doesn't mean there wasn't an EM in place in the city or county.

Will you answer my question now? You know for a fact they did not have one full time person in charge of this thing, in the city or county?

A lot--maybe most--emergency managers are not employees of the FD.
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2013, 03:27 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Slowleak, I no longer see the post that you made earlier but I would like to say AMEN to what you posted.

Mr. Oomkes, I believe you are the one who is uninformed now.

While being a member of a PAID dept for 10 years, I received extensive training.

After Rookie School, I became a HAZ-MAT Technician, Technical Rope Rescue Technician, Confined Space Rescue Technician, and a Heavy Rescue Technician. I also took a couple of Commercial Structure Firefighting classes.

I took Numerous classes at the Texas A&M Fire Training School and am quite familiar with their Fire Grounds and "Disaster City".

I received the training from Battalion Chiefs and Instructors who were present and on duty at the LA Earthquake and the OKC Bombing. Instruction was also received from members of Texas USAR-1.

You know nothing about me..."you need to keep your trap shut". The same goes for you vaacutabove. You showed your true colors by spouting off when you know nothing about me either.

Am I uninformed on recent events?...Yes, I have been busy running my business. The only reason I am posting now is that there is 25mph winds and I cannot spray.

Am I sorry for the NEEDLESS loss of life?...EXTREMELY

Should I have kept some of my earlier thoughts and comments to myself? Yes

Am I uneducated and don't know what I am talking about?... Not in the least...

Again, my heart goes out to those who lost their lives and their families

I am done posting in this thread unless you continue to be a "horses azz"

Have a nice day
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2013, 03:42 PM
slowleak1 slowleak1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
Yup, volunteer FD, doesn't mean there wasn't an EM in place in the city or county.

Will you answer my question now? You know for a fact they did not have one full time person in charge of this thing, in the city or county?

A lot--maybe most--emergency managers are not employees of the FD.
And EM has no say over a fire scene, nor are they there upon initial arrival of the responding FD. Once the initial company gets there and decides what resources are needed, THEN an EM MIGHT get called out.

As I said in my original post, which you obviously did not read thoroughly, I said a paid INSPECTOR OR TRAINING OFFICER. I said nothing about paid IC at the scene.

Bottom line is, lack of training and familiarization of the responding FF's FPD is what killed 5 FF's. Period. 5 lives gone, that didn't need to be. 5 preventable deaths.

You obviously haven't listened to the radio traffic of the FS. It was ametuer hour over there untill other FD's started arriving.
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  #19  
Old 04-19-2013, 04:08 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
Slowleak, I no longer see the post that you made earlier but I would like to say AMEN to what you posted.

Mr. Oomkes, I believe you are the one who is uninformed now.

While being a member of a PAID dept for 10 years, I received extensive training.

After Rookie School, I became a HAZ-MAT Technician, Technical Rope Rescue Technician, Confined Space Rescue Technician, and a Heavy Rescue Technician. I also took a couple of Commercial Structure Firefighting classes.

I took Numerous classes at the Texas A&M Fire Training School and am quite familiar with their Fire Grounds and "Disaster City".

I received the training from Battalion Chiefs and Instructors who were present and on duty at the LA Earthquake and the OKC Bombing. Instruction was also received from members of Texas USAR-1.

You know nothing about me..."you need to keep your trap shut". The same goes for you vaacutabove. You showed your true colors by spouting off when you know nothing about me either.

Am I uninformed on recent events?...Yes, I have been busy running my business. The only reason I am posting now is that there is 25mph winds and I cannot spray.

Am I sorry for the NEEDLESS loss of life?...EXTREMELY

Should I have kept some of my earlier thoughts and comments to myself? Yes

Am I uneducated and don't know what I am talking about?... Not in the least...

Again, my heart goes out to those who lost their lives and their families

I am done posting in this thread unless you continue to be a "horses azz"

Have a nice day
You too.

I was obviously ignorant of your level of education, my apologies. This is no excuse, because I assumed that you, like most others who make comments as yours, are uneducated. That is not the case.

Again, please forgive me for my uneducated insult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowleak1 View Post
And EM has no say over a fire scene, nor are they there upon initial arrival of the responding FD. Once the initial company gets there and decides what resources are needed, THEN an EM MIGHT get called out.

As I said in my original post, which you obviously did not read thoroughly, I said a paid INSPECTOR OR TRAINING OFFICER. I said nothing about paid IC at the scene.

Bottom line is, lack of training and familiarization of the responding FF's FPD is what killed 5 FF's. Period. 5 lives gone, that didn't need to be. 5 preventable deaths.

You obviously haven't listened to the radio traffic of the FS. It was ametuer hour over there untill other FD's started arriving.
I did listen to the entire audio from the link I posted. It tells us nothing of the tactics being employed, or the strategy. They very well could have been attempting to cool one of the anhydrous tanks to give them a longer evac time. We simply do not know. Neither you, nor I should speculate at this time.

The only way absolutely, positively 100% sure way of preventing their loss of life was to not respond and go the other way. That isn't what those in the fire service do. Or cops. Or EMS.

Your statements continue to be ignorant and speculative. At least Mr Putnam has the education to back up his statements at the same time realizing he was not aware of the situation enough to make informed statements--about this scene. None of us are. And it will probably be 6 months to a year before we will have the NIOSH report to know everything that was occurring. I can't look back at the post--no idea where it went or why it went away --so no, I don't remember exactly what it said anymore. But it is at the very least as assuming as I was of Mr Putnam's abilities and education, and you can see what that did to me.
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  #20  
Old 04-19-2013, 04:26 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is offline
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FWIW, since the media doesn't always get it right:

Quote:
West Volunteer Fire Department members quickly responded to alarms from the plant. They went inside to rescue the people right before the whole building blew up. A cause of the fire has yet to be determined.
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/220203...#ixzz2Qvl5KGzX

Life safety first. That's our job, even if it means one or five of us die.
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