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  #21  
Old 05-22-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdeangel View Post
The three buzzing solenoids were on zones 3, 4 & 5
Z3 = 45 Ohms
Z4 = 42 Ohms
Z6 = 43 Ohms


Wasn't able to isolate them because the wire nuts were rusted on and I didn't have my wire strippers. Anyway, I tested the zones after I disconnected them from the panel, and it should just be the same, right?

116 VAC

29 VAC. That's higher than it's rated at, but the voltage to ground was only 12V, so I think the meter might be the problem


Well, that's interesting, because for sure something was drawing a lot of current to generate so much heat, but when put the transformer in series with the meter, plugged the thing in, and tested it, there was only .1 amps being drawn in "OFF" setting. But the receptacle is definitely the classic smoked color when there is too much current, so I have to think it was probably drawing a lot more when I showed up... although no breakers tripped... not even the GCFI on the outlet it's plugged in to.



So like I mentioned above, when I did plug the thing back in after the transformer cooled off, the thing seemed to be working normally. No buzzing electromagnets (yes, I get it, don't call them motors), no voltages on the panel where they shouldn't be, and just a little heating up of the transformer what I would call normal (and no big current flow).

So I'm just scratching my head again, but at least the thing is operational. I guess I'll wait and see if it happens again.... Unless it was the rain sensor, which I disconnected when I was testing the transformer and then left off when I reconnected it.... has anyone heard of wireless sensor generating back voltages to zones or other problem like that?

BTW, your right on, it is an ESP-M with two installed modules and one open port. Not sure about the firmware...
Your measurements are in-line so you look @ the controller. The 12vac measurement is bunk (connect your spare wal-wart for test)

Mods fail as do any other component so swap stations or mods.
I had a bad single in a mod the other day myself.

As for the solenoid hum goes, 60hz hum or internal crosstalk can cause the hum. Don't worry about it.

Nice job on the numbers
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2013, 08:16 PM
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Granted, conventional wisdom has always called soleniods good if the resistance is between 20-60 ohms. However, I've found they will show problems once they heat up. My question would be be, are any valves ganged? Your ohm readings are getting close to me thinking of an open.
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2013, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Leary View Post
Granted, conventional wisdom has always called soleniods good if the resistance is between 20-60 ohms. However, I've found they will show problems once they heat up. My question would be be, are any valves ganged? Your ohm readings are getting close to me thinking of an open.
The solenoids for RB DV, DVF, ASVF, JTVF-AVB all range 42-55 ohms Boss.

PGA, PEB, PESB, EFB all range 30-39 ohms.

300-BPE are 28 ohms.

That is straight from the spec book.
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Leary View Post
Granted, conventional wisdom has always called soleniods good if the resistance is between 20-60 ohms. However, I've found they will show problems once they heat up. My question would be be, are any valves ganged? Your ohm readings are getting close to me thinking of an open.
You piqued my curiosity boss???

So i ran a dry test

20:00
41 - R
26.6 - E
.216 - I

20:15
44 - R
25.9 - E
.213 - I

20:30
45 - R
25.8 - E
.217 - I

30 minutes dry running and the solenoid was very warm but i could bare hand it.

R - went up 04 ohms

Let it cool for 30 minutes and R was 42 ohms.

It was interesting to watch the results change but since this was a dry test it may be nearer to the OPs issue rather than your sceanario.

I think the next time i will pull the plunger and see what kind of amp draw i get?
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:19 PM
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Nice math, professor, but I must not have explained myself completely, as usual, My comment concerned aging solenoids, not fresh ones. With the RM clocks, "Auto Limits" is automatically checked and a warning is issued should a high setting or low setting be detected. The warnings I've seen are "high limit", but upon firing the zone, it worked fine ( after the inrush) and a few minutes later, it failed. Replacing the solenoid always solved the problem.
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2013, 04:58 PM
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You know that i wouldn't use a fresh solenoid boss, the solenoid i used is a retreival from a replaced valve and is the same solenoid that i use for all of my testing.

As i said before, my test may not fit your sceanario but it does tell me that running the controller when the water is off may not be as bad as we might think.

30 mins of dry run did very little to change the resistance of the solenoid and it cooled off still being within working tolarances.

Without voltage + resistance measurements, high or low amperage measurements only tells you that something is wrong, not what is wrong.
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  #27  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:03 PM
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I still see a number of solenoid fails from zone/master valves that were powered into the winter
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
I still see a number of solenoid fails from zone/master valves that were powered into the winter
Same question i asked ML, why?

When you experienced the failure what was the resistance? What about the wire path? Was there a short or open in the coil?

Low resistance causes heat, higher resistance less amperage. What is the cause?
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:00 PM
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I was just replacing the fails then, and not taking resistance measurements on them, since they were headed for a landfill.

I replaced a newer W*M solenoid a week or so back, and I did check its resistance first ~ 30 ohms.
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2013, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
I was just replacing the fails then, and not taking resistance measurements on them, since they were headed for a landfill.

I replaced a newer W*M solenoid a week or so back, and I did check its resistance first ~ 30 ohms.
The W*M plastic thread measures 35 ohms and the brass thread measures 30 ohms right out of the box Shoes.

I might be doing something way wrong but i don't change out solenoids unless they measure short (below 10) or open (OL or 1)
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