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  #21  
Old 08-22-2013, 09:47 PM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
The e-coli, listeria etc. are found in food processing plants, raw manure straight from the animal, but never heard of it being in compost... anyone else???
No, or I should say I do not know. However, safety interval after fertilizing is the topic. And yes, some fertilizers sold as organic are indeed dangerous to handle, apply, and certainly to roll around in. Many people with several years of experience and education have weighed in on this (above) who have basically the same concerns.

Histoplasmosis anyone?
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  #22  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:39 AM
Victorsaur Victorsaur is offline
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Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
I was intrigued by your proposed exercise, so I looked it up. According to Morton's Salt, common table salt (NaCl) has an LD50 acute oral toxicity to rats of 3,000 mg/kg. According to Agrium, 46-0-0 urea fertilizer (CO(NH2)2) has an LD50 acute oral toxicity to rats of 14,300 mg/kg.

As I'm sure you're aware, when an LD50 value is lower, it means that less of the material is needed to kill half of test population and is often used as a measure of toxicity.

A scan of the MSDS shows that common table salt is more toxic than urea fertilizer.
Somebody out to get their jollies insulting others would be prone to error. A wise man once said "When ego is inflated, intellect declines."
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  #23  
Old 08-23-2013, 07:30 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
No, or I should say I do not know. However, safety interval after fertilizing is the topic. And yes, some fertilizers sold as organic are indeed dangerous to handle, apply, and certainly to roll around in. Many people with several years of experience and education have weighed in on this (above) who have basically the same concerns.

Histoplasmosis anyone?
Breathing in the spores from anything is an ever present danger and one would have to stay in his room with a vacuum cleaner to avoid it... Ask yourself this: "Do the fungi that thrive in a bat cave also flourish in the grass???"

When the typical synthetically maintained lawn with all the 'cides and concentrated particles of NPK, turns into a dust cloud at mowing time,, would that be safer to breathe that a cloud of dust from guano applied a couple of days ago???

The big picture of what kind of fungi flourish in which environments is an important step to understand... Once the organic fert is washed into the grass, I can't see that Histoplasmosis is going to be running rampant and producing spores to kill humans...

I remember cleaning out a swamp-like area near a lake when I first started and both my wife and I ended up with some kind of respiratory issue, because of the environment we were working in... Now,,, should we assume that those leaves still contain that fungi or that the new green space contains the same fungi that the rotting leaves did, in that spot???

I hope that these are just questions that raise the level of thinking and not something that is going to start a lot of bashing and name-calling... I don't think you're that way, but I'm just clearing the air before it gets kirilized...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:51 AM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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It has taken a great deal of discipline and personal restraint but I have tried not to be that way to date. It is getting more difficult, I assure you.

My only exposure to bat caves is having used a fair amount of potassium nitrate. I am careful with it due to concerns about fire and filth. Fire concern is proven; filth is a personal concern I would not mind being proven wrong about but I do not care about finding the real answer either. Caution is not likely to shorten my life.

Subtracting pesticides from your comparison question above makes it a fair question and within the OP's original question. Yes, I would rather breathe or have on my skin dust from synthetics than semi-organics derived from poultry manure.

This topic is beginning to feel trollish as the OP seems to have done a hit and run.
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  #25  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:30 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
I was intrigued by your proposed exercise, so I looked it up. According to Morton's Salt, common table salt (NaCl) has an LD50 acute oral toxicity to rats of 3,000 mg/kg. According to Agrium, 46-0-0 urea fertilizer (CO(NH2)2) has an LD50 acute oral toxicity to rats of 14,300 mg/kg.

As I'm sure you're aware, when an LD50 value is lower, it means that less of the material is needed to kill half of test population and is often used as a measure of toxicity.

A scan of the MSDS shows that common table salt is more toxic than urea fertilizer.
Too bad the ocean isn't 100% NaCl or you might have something here. Sea water has a salinity on average of 3.5%, and of course you know what salinity means, and it doesn't mean NaCl content. Want to make your comparison again? Of course we will ignore any hazardous decomposition products, toxicities of unlisted ingredients and of course all other fertilizers and formulations as well.
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  #26  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:44 AM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Too bad the ocean isn't 100% NaCl or you might have something here. Sea water has a salinity on average of 3.5%, and of course you know what salinity means, and it doesn't mean NaCl content. Want to make your comparison again? Of course we will ignore any hazardous decomposition products, toxicities of unlisted ingredients and of course all other fertilizers and formulations as well.
Nice switch. Guess I misunderstood too. Thought maybe you had MSDS for ocean in your earlier post.
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2013, 11:26 AM
Skipster Skipster is online now
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Too bad the ocean isn't 100% NaCl or you might have something here. Sea water has a salinity on average of 3.5%, and of course you know what salinity means, and it doesn't mean NaCl content. Want to make your comparison again? Of course we will ignore any hazardous decomposition products, toxicities of unlisted ingredients and of course all other fertilizers and formulations as well.
Come now, Kiril. If you have an MSDS for seawater, please distribute. But, the point in question is not seawater -- its fertilizer vs table salt. You said that one merely had to pull a couple of MSDS to demonstrate that GD's claim (that fertilizer was no more harmful than table salt) was not true.

I pulled a couple of MSDS and found that it was in fact true: table salt is more toxic than urea fertilizer.

If you have evidence otherwise, please post it here.

If you don't have that evidence, you should post an apology.
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2013, 11:42 AM
ChiTownAmateur ChiTownAmateur is offline
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Let me pose the question a bit differently...

Would you let a 2 year old walk barefoot on a lawn that was just fertilized using granular fertilizer?
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  #29  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:01 PM
Skipster Skipster is online now
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Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur View Post
Let me pose the question a bit differently...

Would you let a 2 year old walk barefoot on a lawn that was just fertilized using granular fertilizer?
Yes



For the naysayers in the crowd, we all know that granular products should be watered in soon after application, so if you're using a granular product with any sort of pesticide on it, that product would also be watered in and the leaves should be allowed to dry. After that, let your kids play in it all they want!
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  #30  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:11 PM
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FdLLawnMan FdLLawnMan is online now
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Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur View Post
Let me pose the question a bit differently...

Would you let a 2 year old walk barefoot on a lawn that was just fertilized using granular fertilizer?
Yes I would and did let my grandchildren walk on it a few hours after application. I stick my hand in straight fertilizer all the time to break up any clumps after it is poured in the spreader hopper.
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